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#1
10-07-2007, 08:53 PM
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The reason I brought up the non bet-back topic harkens to researching Champagne winners BC Juvy histories after a discussion with Lansdon Robbins in reference to First Samurai. Since the advent of the BC, their have only been a couple standouts in the Juvy after winning the Champagne... Think I may still have the notes I made as a matter of fact.. I'll look for them as they were surprising.
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984. 
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#2
10-07-2007, 09:10 PM
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Yeah, if you disect Champagne winners that ran in the BC I think you will find they didn't necessarily underperform...at least dramatically. It feels a little like the ridiculous Juvie/Derby jinx.
I have no idea right now what the Juvenile field will look like when assembled, and the posts are drawn, and right now I tend to favor Tale of Ekati, but considering the overall ineptitude we have seen, I can't dismiss any horse because it won a big race. Who are all the hidden horses out there this year?
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#3
10-07-2007, 09:30 PM
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Since 1990... Champagne Winner in BC Juvy
13/2-0-2 (And since Timber Country.. 9/0-0-2) 06 Scat Daddy - 4th @ 7-2 05 First Samurai - 3rd @ 3-2 (At Belmont) 04 Proud Accolade - 6th @ 5-2 03 Birdstone - DNS 02 Toccet - 9th @ 8-1 01 Officer - 5th @ 3-4 (At Belmont) 00 AP Valentine - 14th @ 5-2 99 Greenwood Lake - DNS 98 The Groom is Red - 6th @ 3-1 97 Grand Slam - 8th @ 2-1 (eased with cut) 96 Ordway - 3rd @ 3-2 95 Maria's Mon - DNS 94 Timber Country - WON @ 5-2 (At Churchill) 93 Dehere - 8th @ 3-4 92 Sea Hero - 7th @ 5-2 91 Tri to Watch - 8th @ 5-1 90 Fly So Free - WON @ 3-2 (At Belmont)
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984.
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#4
10-07-2007, 09:36 PM
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Point Given was a very hard luck second to AP Valentine and then an even harder luck loser of a photo to Macho Uno. Henny Hughes arguably ran better than First Samurai two years ago and came back to do the same in the BC.
Honestly, looking at that list only Dehere's failure surprised me. My point is that solid handicapping will make the right decisions and going into your handicapping with a preconceived bias will harm you in the long run.
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#5
10-07-2007, 09:48 PM
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Andy.. Who was Tri to Watch? Have not one iota of a recollection of that '91 Champagne winner.. None. A Fred Hooper runner trained by Carl Domino.. but what else did he ever do?
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984.
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#6
10-07-2007, 09:52 PM
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#7
10-07-2007, 09:55 PM
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I have very little memory of Tri to Watch, and was surely at that Champagne, so he must have been pretty nondescript.
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#8
10-07-2007, 09:50 PM
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which is reinforced by the payouts of the BC Juvie....the betting fav has won 8 times and we have only had double digit payouts 4 times (three in the past few years)....so while the Champagne winner might not have been winning, logical horses were.
__________________
 Seek respect, not attention.
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#9
10-07-2007, 10:00 PM
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__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984.
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#10
10-07-2007, 10:06 PM
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#11
10-07-2007, 09:59 PM
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Hybrid Mode
