Bailey vs. Azeri

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You are the typical modern day horseracing fan....taking potential and portraying it as success! You don't happen to own a breeding farm do you?


BTW I saw Lakeway and Sardula up close and personal. They were far from alltime greats like this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGD77kgutGU

uh, yeah. sardula won the kentucky oaks (among others) and lakeway was a multiple grade 1 winner who beat the snot out of inside information in their lone race against each other prior to lakeway running sick.

akinemond, after losing her debut, won something like 7 in a row, all very easily, culminated by her 18 length win where she ran a blazing fast time and got a 118 or 119 bsf. she was so dominant in her previous races, drysdale actually chickened out with gorgeous (another filly that would have beaten azeri) and scratched her.

just to dispel any misguided opinions you have on those three horses and whether they were successes were more about merit or potential, I've done you the favor of posting here what each did.

SARDULA:

SARDULA,B,f,Storm Cat 2 10 6 3 0 882,460 (102) 56.65
North America 2 YO Record * 5 3 2 0 532,545 (102)
North America Turf Record 1 0 0 0 4,375 ( 88)
North America Dirt Sprints 3 3 0 0 214,450 (102)
North America Dirt Routes 6 3 3 0 663,635 (100)
DP = 7-7-9-0-3 DI = 2.47 CD = 0.58 AWD = 7.50
At 2 Won Del Mar Debutante S. -G2 (250,000), Hollywood Starlet S. -G1
(250,000), 2nd Breeders' Cup Juvenile Fillies S. -G1 (1,000,000), Oak
Leaf S. -G1 (200,000)
At 3 Won Kentucky Oaks -G1 (283,600), Santa Paula S. -L (106,000),
Princess S. -G2 (102,700), 2nd Hollywood Oaks -G1 (205,000)

lets see, her only race worse than 2nd was her lone turf start. she won the hollywood starlet and kentucky oaks, both grade 1s and the del mar debutante and princess stakes, both grade 2s. she ran 2nd in the bc juvie filly and 2nd in the hollywood oaks (in an insane time), both grade 1s.

Next is Lakeway, which I'll only include up to her last race as a 3yo, where she was run sick and nearly died.

LAKEWAY,B,f,Seattle Slew 3 14 7 3 3 965,330 (111) 48.43
North America 2 YO Record * 1 1 0 0 15,400 ( 96)
North America Dirt Sprints 3 2 0 1 52,400 (101)
North America Dirt Routes 11 5 3 2 912,930 (111)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 2 1 0 1 257,280 (111)
DP = 14-3-19-2-0 DI = 2.30 CD = 0.76 AWD = 7.93
At 3 Won Santa Anita Oaks -G1 (212,800), Hollywood Oaks -G1 (205,000),
Mother Goose S. -G1 (200,000), Las Virgenes S. -G1 (161,100), 2nd
Kentucky Oaks -G1 (283,600), Alabama S. -G1 (200,000)

Yeah, you're right. She wasn't very good at all. Four grade 1's as a three year old, a desperate nose loss in the ky oaks and a 2nd in the alabama in which she nearly died after the race (both losses were in grade 1's).
That 145.4 she ran 9f at hollywood wasn't really that astonishing now that i think about it.

Now Akinemod, who after that 18 length win early in her four year old year nearly died from colic, suffered injuries and more illnesses, and when finally making it back to the races something like 2 years later, was nowhere near what she was.

She lost her debut to a pretty useful filly (paper princess i think), then won 6 in a row (now that i've looked it up). she spent most of those races sprinting, but when routed in the el encino, a grade 2, she wins by 18 lengths in something like 1:41, with more ease than you'll see from a horse working out.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

uh, yeah. sardula won the kentucky oaks (among others) and lakeway was a multiple grade 1 winner who beat the snot out of inside information in their lone race against each other prior to lakeway running sick.

akinemond, after losing her debut, won something like 7 in a row, all very easily, culminated by her 18 length win where she ran a blazing fast time and got a 118 or 119 bsf. she was so dominant in her previous races, drysdale actually chickened out with gorgeous (another filly that would have beaten azeri) and scratched her.

just to dispel any misguided opinions you have on those three horses and whether they were successes were more about merit or potential, I've done you the favor of posting here what each did.

SARDULA:

SARDULA,B,f,Storm Cat 2 10 6 3 0 882,460 (102) 56.65
North America 2 YO Record * 5 3 2 0 532,545 (102)
North America Turf Record 1 0 0 0 4,375 ( 88)
North America Dirt Sprints 3 3 0 0 214,450 (102)
North America Dirt Routes 6 3 3 0 663,635 (100)
DP = 7-7-9-0-3 DI = 2.47 CD = 0.58 AWD = 7.50
At 2 Won Del Mar Debutante S. -G2 (250,000), Hollywood Starlet S. -G1
(250,000), 2nd Breeders' Cup Juvenile Fillies S. -G1 (1,000,000), Oak
Leaf S. -G1 (200,000)
At 3 Won Kentucky Oaks -G1 (283,600), Santa Paula S. -L (106,000),
Princess S. -G2 (102,700), 2nd Hollywood Oaks -G1 (205,000)

lets see, her only race worse than 2nd was her lone turf start. she won the hollywood starlet and kentucky oaks, both grade 1s and the del mar debutante and princess stakes, both grade 2s. she ran 2nd in the bc juvie filly and 2nd in the hollywood oaks (in an insane time), both grade 1s.

Next is Lakeway, which I'll only include up to her last race as a 3yo, where she was run sick and nearly died.

LAKEWAY,B,f,Seattle Slew 3 14 7 3 3 965,330 (111) 48.43
North America 2 YO Record * 1 1 0 0 15,400 ( 96)
North America Dirt Sprints 3 2 0 1 52,400 (101)
North America Dirt Routes 11 5 3 2 912,930 (111)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 2 1 0 1 257,280 (111)
DP = 14-3-19-2-0 DI = 2.30 CD = 0.76 AWD = 7.93
At 3 Won Santa Anita Oaks -G1 (212,800), Hollywood Oaks -G1 (205,000),
Mother Goose S. -G1 (200,000), Las Virgenes S. -G1 (161,100), 2nd
Kentucky Oaks -G1 (283,600), Alabama S. -G1 (200,000)

Yeah, you're right. She wasn't very good at all. Four grade 1's as a three year old, a desperate nose loss in the ky oaks and a 2nd in the alabama in which she nearly died after the race (both losses were in grade 1's).
That 145.4 she ran 9f at hollywood wasn't really that astonishing now that i think about it.

Now Akinemod, who after that 18 length win early in her four year old year nearly died from colic, suffered injuries and more illnesses, and when finally making it back to the races something like 2 years later, was nowhere near what she was.

She lost her debut to a pretty useful filly (paper princess i think), then won 6 in a row (now that i've looked it up). she spent most of those races sprinting, but when routed in the el encino, a grade 2, she wins by 18 lengths in something like 1:41, with more ease than you'll see from a horse working out.

No one said that Sardula and Lakeway were not good horses but they took turns beating the same bad group of fillies in the same year. The KY oaks that year was an awful field with the exception of the 2 noted horses. To be an alltime great you must at least be the best filly of your crop, neither of which Sardula or Lakeway was. I never said one negative word about them but the likes of Go for Wand, Bayakoa and Lady's Secret would have ripped them apart. And Azeri probably would have taken them too. As for the other horse....She never won any important races so why should she be included in the discussion?

[pdrift1]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

No one said that Sardula and Lakeway were not good horses but they took turns beating the same bad group of fillies in the same year. The KY oaks that year was an awful field with the exception of the 2 noted horses. To be an alltime great you must at least be the best filly of your crop, neither of which Sardula or Lakeway was. I never said one negative word about them but the likes of Go for Wand, Bayakoa and Lady's Secret would have ripped them apart. And Azeri probably would have taken them too. As for the other horse....She never won any important races so why should she be included in the discussion?

clear out your mailbox!!!!!! lol

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pdrift1

clear out your mailbox!!!!!! lol

sorry

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

No one said that Sardula and Lakeway were not good horses but they took turns beating the same bad group of fillies in the same year. The KY oaks that year was an awful field with the exception of the 2 noted horses. To be an alltime great you must at least be the best filly of your crop, neither of which Sardula or Lakeway was. I never said one negative word about them but the likes of Go for Wand, Bayakoa and Lady's Secret would have ripped them apart. And Azeri probably would have taken them too. As for the other horse....She never won any important races so why should she be included in the discussion?

yeah, that crop that sardula and lakeway was in sort of reminds me of recent crops of fillies.

inside information, heavenly prize, phone chatter (granted, she didnt do anything after her bc win) along with sardula and lakeway, that's a pretty awful crop of fillies. you might be the only person who follows racing to think that was a bad group of fillies in that crop. most would say that was one of the best crops ever, at least in recent memory.

as to akinemod, if melair can count, then so too can akinemod. after all, the only race of significance that melair won was a one turn mile against snow chief and southern halo. the greatness of her performance that day cannot be described, much in the same way akinemod's performance was in her 18 length win.

in case you've never seen her, i'll post this clip of her here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXknPEC9GCU

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

yeah, that crop that sardula and lakeway was in sort of reminds me of recent crops of fillies.

inside information, heavenly prize, phone chatter (granted, she didnt do anything after her bc win) along with sardula and lakeway, that's a pretty awful crop of fillies. you might be the only person who follows racing to think that was a bad group of fillies in that crop. most would say that was one of the best crops ever, at least in recent memory.

as to akinemod, if melair can count, then so too can akinemod. after all, the only race of significance that melair won was a one turn mile against snow chief and southern halo. the greatness of her performance that day cannot be described, much in the same way akinemod's performance was in her 18 length win.

in case you've never seen her, i'll post this clip of her here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXknPEC9GCU

Except Lakeway and Sardula rarely if ever beat any of those horses! All of the victories were west coast with the exception of the KY Oaks which featured pretty much no one.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Except Lakeway and Sardula rarely if ever beat any of those horses! All of the victories were west coast with the exception of the KY Oaks which featured pretty much no one.

Except when Lakeway went to NY and kicked the crap out of inside information? Did they run the Mother Goose in California that year?

Or the time Heavenly Prize shipped out to California for the BC juvie filly race and got smoked by Phone Chatter and Sardula?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Or the time Heavenly Prize shipped out to California for the BC juvie filly race and got smoked by Phone Chatter and Sardula?

Heavenly Prize hardly got " smoked " in that race.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Heavenly Prize hardly got " smoked " in that race.

I think she ran third, and I don't recall exactly by how much she lost, but wasn't it by around 5?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Except Lakeway and Sardula rarely if ever beat any of those horses! All of the victories were west coast with the exception of the KY Oaks which featured pretty much no one.

Lakeway won the Mother Goose in very impressive fashion.

[Cannon Shell]

Ok I give up

Lakeway and Sardula should be in the HALL of FAME!!!

We are all just witnesses to the greatness of these 2 fillies.

akinemod should be in too.


Go for Wand just rolled over in her grave......

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Ok I give up

Lakeway and Sardula should be in the HALL of FAME!!!

We are all just witnesses to the greatness of these 2 fillies.

akinemod should be in too.


Go for Wand just rolled over in her grave......

You are a quitter....

You should have mocked the supposed greatness that was Phone Chatter.....

You'd have really had some fun at that point.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Ok I give up

Lakeway and Sardula should be in the HALL of FAME!!!

We are all just witnesses to the greatness of these 2 fillies.

akinemod should be in too.


Go for Wand just rolled over in her grave......

Are facts always so inconvenient for you?

The funny thing is, I loved all those fillies I named in this thread, especially go for wand. There is just no way on earth she would have beaten a healthy lakeway by much, if at all. They were both on the same level in my opinion.

I think you are just biased against California horses and probably aren't as familiar with Lakeway's 3yo races as you are with her 4yo races, when she was no longer the same filly.

Sardula died while a three year old, so who knows what would have happened with her.