'Rags' with hairline fracture; '08 possible

[Indian Charlie]

my impression watching her race was that she looked like a broken down claimer compared to when i saw any of her previous races.

that she struggled to lose to a horse that struggled against octave, that said a lot to me as well. layoff or not, that race sucked.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

my impression watching her race was that she looked like a broken down claimer compared to when i saw any of her previous races.

that she struggled to lose to a horse that struggled against octave, that said a lot to me as well. layoff or not, that race sucked.

Wow. A broken down claimer? I suppose the 1:47 and 4/5, fast final three furlongs (even with the wind) and good effort from the winner made the Gazelle a pretty good race.

To simply use the generalization that Lear's Princess trading decisions with Octave makes her a below average horse is foolish. Perhaps Lear's Princess liked the return to a one-turn race. Perhaps she is still improving, as she has only a half-dozen career starts.

Rags to Riches looked like a horse coming off a layoff who needed a race. She ran well and was beaten by a horse who was just a bit better on that particular afternoon. But to say she looked like a beaten down claimer even in comparison to her prior starts is quite a stretch in my opinion.

NT

[geeker2]

yeah IC...sure you were not watching the GM race by mistake?

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by geeker2

yeah IC...sure you were not watching the GM race by mistake?

Now now I'm not sure how fair that is...clearly Rags has to come back and prove herself whilst The Green Monkey's done enough.

[King Glorious]

Nobody will say it but the Belmont Stakes has claimed another. First, Curlin comes back to run like crap. The Rags had all of her training issues before this. Yet another Belmont winner that won't finish out their 3yo season: Risen Star, Hansel, Thunder Gulch, Charismatic, Point Given, Empire Maker, Afleet Alex, Jazil, Rags to Riches. That's nine in 20 years, 45%.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Nobody will say it but the Belmont Stakes has claimed another. First, Curlin comes back to run like crap. The Rags had all of her training issues before this. Yet another Belmont winner that won't finish out their 3yo season: Risen Star, Hansel, Thunder Gulch, Charismatic, Point Given, Empire Maker, Afleet Alex, Jazil, Rags to Riches. That's nine in 20 years, 45%.

I wish Charismatic had won the Belmont. The one who did that year had a pretty good four-year-old season, yes?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Nobody will say it but the Belmont Stakes has claimed another. First, Curlin comes back to run like crap. The Rags had all of her training issues before this. Yet another Belmont winner that won't finish out their 3yo season: Risen Star, Hansel, Thunder Gulch, Charismatic, Point Given, Empire Maker, Afleet Alex, Jazil, Rags to Riches. That's nine in 20 years, 45%.

I just can't get over how flawed your so-called " analysis " of this situation is. First of all, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but Charismatic didn't win the Belmont....Lemon Drop Kid did. Care to give us the details of the rest of his career. But aside from that, singling out the winner of the race, while ignoring the accomplishments of those that finished behind him ( or her ) is beyond preposterous. But hey, let's throw a few out there....You mention Risen Star, well feel free to discuss Winning Colors's performances against Personal Ensign that Fall. Hansel? Strike the Gold, who finished a neck behind him, was a Grade 1 winner at 4. Thunder Gulch won the Swaps and Travers before breaking his leg in the Woodward. I suppose that break was waiting in the wings after the Belmont but failed to stop him in the two prior efforts? Point Given won the Haskell and Travers. What exactly did the Belmont have to do with his subsequent injury? Bluegrass Cat, who finished behind Jazil, won the Haskell and was second in the Travers. Sunriver, who finished third, has been extremely good on the turf at 4.

While we're on it, what were the negative effects of the Belmont on Easy Goer? He won four more Grade 1s that year. Sunday Silence, who finished second, beat him in the BC Classic. AP Indy won the Belmont....and the BC Classic. Skip Away finished second in the Belmont.....he beat Cigar in the Woodward the following September. I am a little unclear about the rest of his career. Perhaps you can remind me. Unshaded was third in the 2000 Belmont.....he won the Travers. Ten Most Wanted was second......he won the Travers.

Sounds to me like trainers should be falling all over themselves to compete in the Belmont if they want to have a successful future with their charges. At the very least there is a stronger argument for that point than suggesting that running in the Belmont is some sort of mistake.

[letswastemoney]

and Funny Cide won the JCGC at 4

[AeWingnut]

Horses don't hold their form forever. A lot of them are retired after the Belmont becuase they need to go to the breeding shed before they tail off

it only hurts their stud fee to keep racing

Regardless of whether they won or lost, there are a lot of good horses that suffered career ending injuries at Belmont Stakes:

aside from those mentioned the following very good horses had careers ended by injury suffered inthe Belmont stakes: Count Fleet, Cavan, Majestic Prince, Smarty Jones, Praire Bayou (euthanized); Tim Tam and Caveat. Possibly Pine BLuff as well, not sure exactly when he was injured.

Lot of other injuries also: Needles did not run the same after Belmont (2 off the board finishes that year, but won following year); Cannonero was also done for the season but came back next. Count Turf was never same and Pensive never won again, although not exactly sure what injuries if any. Alsab suffered a serious splint injury in this race but somehow maged to run again in his soph. season.

This list is by no means complete and I only listed horses that have won a TC race. There are also a few e.g. Bold Forbes and Cannonade that went wrong at some pt. but not sure if it was the Belmont race itself.

It seems to me this is a lot of injuries for good horses, but you may not see it that way.

note: Hansel was actually hurt in the Travers stakes.

[edited to add a few horses]

[philcski]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I just can't get over how flawed your so-called " analysis " of this situation is. First of all, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but Charismatic didn't win the Belmont....Lemon Drop Kid did. Care to give us the details of the rest of his career. But aside from that, singling out the winner of the race, while ignoring the accomplishments of those that finished behind him ( or her ) is beyond preposterous. But hey, let's throw a few out there....You mention Risen Star, well feel free to discuss Winning Colors's performances against Personal Ensign that Fall. Hansel? Strike the Gold, who finished a neck behind him, was a Grade 1 winner at 4. Thunder Gulch won the Swaps and Travers before breaking his leg in the Woodward. I suppose that break was waiting in the wings after the Belmont but failed to stop him in the two prior efforts? Point Given won the Haskell and Travers. What exactly did the Belmont have to do with his subsequent injury? Bluegrass Cat, who finished behind Jazil, won the Haskell and was second in the Travers. Sunriver, who finished third, has been extremely good on the turf at 4.

While we're on it, what were the negative effects of the Belmont on Easy Goer? He won four more Grade 1s that year. Sunday Silence, who finished second, beat him in the BC Classic. AP Indy won the Belmont....and the BC Classic. Skip Away finished second in the Belmont.....he beat Cigar in the Woodward the following September. I am a little unclear about the rest of his career. Perhaps you can remind me. Unshaded was third in the 2000 Belmont.....he won the Travers. Ten Most Wanted was second......he won the Travers.

Sounds to me like trainers should be falling all over themselves to compete in the Belmont if they want to have a successful future with their charges. At the very least there is a stronger argument for that point than suggesting that running in the Belmont is some sort of mistake.

Not to mention Birdstone won the Travers after the Belmont (with no prep, retired sound).

I forgot about Skip Away's Belmont, since he ran so poorly in the Derby... I always think of his elder accomplishments (of which there were many, obviously). It was the JCGC in which he beat Cigar, by the way

[letswastemoney]

Does anyone think there's a possibility that Rags is not injured and that they are just sore losers that don't want to blemish her record by risking losing the Distaff??

I'm not saying I think that's what happened because I believe she's really injured, but that entered the back of my head.

[Left Bank]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Nobody will say it but the Belmont Stakes has claimed another. First, Curlin comes back to run like crap. The Rags had all of her training issues before this. Yet another Belmont winner that won't finish out their 3yo season: Risen Star, Hansel, Thunder Gulch, Charismatic, Point Given, Empire Maker, Afleet Alex, Jazil, Rags to Riches. That's nine in 20 years, 45%.

To assume that racing in the Belmont is to blame for any of their careers ending is ridiculous!

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

It really depends on what you consider finishing out their 3 year old season. Some on your list went on to win multiple stakes after the Belmont.

I mean didn't complete the year. Some ran in a few more races and had some success, especially Thunder Gulch and Point Given. But those on the list didn't finish their seasons.

[sumitas]

Interesting observation KG. We'll ponder as to why those horses could not continue.

I can't wait to see her get busy in the shed.

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

I can't wait to see her get busy in the shed.

I want some pictures of that

[blackthroatedwind]

Hard Spun was second in the Haskell and won the King's Bishop, CP West was second to Street Sense in the Jim Dandy and Tiago won the Swaps.

Yeah, that Belmont is sure a killer race.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

my impression watching her race was that she looked like a broken down claimer compared to when i saw any of her previous races.

that she struggled to lose to a horse that struggled against octave, that said a lot to me as well. layoff or not, that race sucked.

Lear's Princess is a very talented filly who has been unlucky in many of her races and seems to be getting better with every race. No shame in losing to her.