Patriots punishment

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If everyone is doing it is it really a big deal? I mean they were videotaping the other teams signs, not poisioning the gatorade. I guess I may be stupid but I assumed that they were all doing this anyway.

can the same be said about horse trainers drugging horses?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pointman

can the same be said about horse trainers drugging horses?

Not even in the same ballpark.

The one question I have that no one seems to be asking is that if Mangini was aware that his signals were being stolen, why didn't he simply change them from game to game? Wouldn't the other team having faulty information actually be an advantage for the Jets?

Mangini obviously would think of this which leads me to believe that he just wanted for Belichik to get caught, not that he thought that the Pats would actually gain a signifigant advantage from them

[golfer]

[quote=Cannon Shell]Not even in the same ballpark.

The one question I have that no one seems to be asking is that if Mangini was aware that his signals were being stolen, why didn't he simply change them from game to game? Wouldn't the other team having faulty information actually be an advantage for the Jets?

Mangini obviously would think of this which leads me to believe that he just wanted for Belichik to get caught, not that he thought that the Pats would actually gain a signifigant advantage from them[/QUOTE]

Chuck, I'm sorry to say this is an extremely valid point, and while it does not absolve Belichek of cheating, makes me feel a whole lot worse about the woeful performance of the Jets defense last week.

[Cannon Shell]

[quote=golfer]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Not even in the same ballpark.

The one question I have that no one seems to be asking is that if Mangini was aware that his signals were being stolen, why didn't he simply change them from game to game? Wouldn't the other team having faulty information actually be an advantage for the Jets?

Mangini obviously would think of this which leads me to believe that he just wanted for Belichik to get caught, not that he thought that the Pats would actually gain a signifigant advantage from them[/QUOTE]

Chuck, I'm sorry to say this is an extremely valid point, and while it does not absolve Belichek of cheating, makes me feel a whole lot worse about the woeful performance of the Jets defense last week.

At least you pawned off Herm and got something in return which seems to be one of the great front office deals in a long time.

[golfer]

Herman Edwards is a wonderful human being, a quality motivational speaker, and a below average football coach. By the way, You Play to Win the Game, but sometimes you coach not to lose.

[Samarta]

[quote=golfer]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Not even in the same ballpark.

The one question I have that no one seems to be asking is that if Mangini was aware that his signals were being stolen, why didn't he simply change them from game to game? Wouldn't the other team having faulty information actually be an advantage for the Jets?

Mangini obviously would think of this which leads me to believe that he just wanted for Belichik to get caught, not that he thought that the Pats would actually gain a signifigant advantage from them[/QUOTE]

Chuck, I'm sorry to say this is an extremely valid point, and while it does not absolve Belichek of cheating, makes me feel a whole lot worse about the woeful performance of the Jets defense last week.

Or maybe because they all do it......

[SentToStud]

The penalties put on NE are a joke. $750k in fines, $500k to Belechik is chump change and the coach's fine will get passed on through a bonus. Wade Wilson got suspended and fined for being a coach who some time ago got some HGH.

Belechik should have got suspended for four games and the team fined $10 million.

[Danzig]

[quote=Samarta]

Originally Posted by golfer

Or maybe because they all do it......

the most over-used and abused 'justification' there is....i don't believe everybody does it, just like i don't believe everyone steals from their employer, cheats on their spouse, etc. but the ones who do it seem to think so!

[Samarta]

[quote=Danzig]

Originally Posted by Samarta

the most over-used and abused 'justification' there is....i don't believe everybody does it, just like i don't believe everyone steals from their employer, cheats on their spouse, etc. but the ones who do it seem to think so!

The justification mentioned in my response came from an interview I saw on MSN this morning where a NFL beat reporter commented on the behind the ropes jokes that are going on about this and how it's widely used throughout the league. It reminded me of the interview that Carl Lewis did after he was awarded the gold medal for the Olympic 100 meters because Ben Johnson had a positive drug test. Carl Lewis's comment was that he couldn't believe how anyone could get caught because they all know how to cycle in and cycle out of steriods to beat the testing and when someone gets caught it's simply out of stupidity.

[Danzig]

[quote=Samarta]

Originally Posted by Danzig

The justification mentioned in my response came from an interview I saw on MSN this morning where a NFL beat reporter commented on the behind the ropes jokes that are going on about this and how it's widely used throughout the league. It reminded me of the interview that Carl Lewis did after he was awarded the gold medal for the Olympic 100 meters because Ben Johnson had a positive drug test. Carl Lewis's comment was that he couldn't believe how anyone could get caught because they all know how to cycle in and cycle out of steriods to beat the testing and when someone gets caught it's simply out of stupidity.

yeah, i've heard several people ask if this does happen everywhere. i hope it doesn't!

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The one question I have that no one seems to be asking is that if Mangini was aware that his signals were being stolen, why didn't he simply change them from game to game? Wouldn't the other team having faulty information actually be an advantage for the Jets?

Yeah.

The people who think any of this impacted this game are totally insane.

This game featured a 108 yard kickoff return for a TD by NE - a 51 yard bomb NE TD to a reciever who was being TRIPLE covered on the play.

The signal stealing might have helped them in a game later on in the season, not this one.

New England always looks like a vastly improved team when they play teams for a second or third time in the same season - the Colts and Steelers know that as well as anyone.

However, I don't think stealing signals are the real reason for that.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Yeah.

The people who think any of this impacted this game are totally insane.

This game featured a 108 yard kickoff return for a TD by NE - a 51 yard bomb NE TD to a reciever who was being TRIPLE covered on the play.

The signal stealing might have helped them in a game later on in the season, not this one.

New England always looks like a vastly improved team when they play teams for a second or third time in the same season - the Colts and Steelers know that as well as anyone.

However, I don't think stealing signals are the real reason for that.

maybe they'd have won this game regardless...but how many games have they won due to cheating? how tainted is their record now? how much better would it make a good team such as the pats--and if they were that good, why did he feel the need to go over the top on this, and risk so much for this game?

[JJP]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Yeah.

The people who think any of this impacted this game are totally insane.

This game featured a 108 yard kickoff return for a TD by NE - a 51 yard bomb NE TD to a reciever who was being TRIPLE covered on the play.

The signal stealing might have helped them in a game later on in the season, not this one.

New England always looks like a vastly improved team when they play teams for a second or third time in the same season - the Colts and Steelers know that as well as anyone.

However, I don't think stealing signals are the real reason for that.

What's happened to New England the last several times they played the Colts? Can you say, ass-kicking?? And not by the Pats. The Patriots are sooooo 2003....

[JJP]

In 2003 and 2004 they were the best team and probably would've won anyways. But 2001......they were arguably one of the worst Super Bowl winning teams ever; similar to the Cardinal team in MLB who won the World Series last year. The Patriots were a 14 point dog to the Rams in that Super Bowl although they probably were helped by the fact that Martz is a O-coordinator and not a good head coach. Statistically, they were not in the top 12 either offensively or defensively. They also got away with roughing up Ram receivers back then that wouldn't be allowed now.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Yeah.

The people who think any of this impacted this game are totally insane.

This game featured a 108 yard kickoff return for a TD by NE - a 51 yard bomb NE TD to a reciever who was being TRIPLE covered on the play.

The signal stealing might have helped them in a game later on in the season, not this one.

New England always looks like a vastly improved team when they play teams for a second or third time in the same season - the Colts and Steelers know that as well as anyone.

However, I don't think stealing signals are the real reason for that.

I think the Pats are a much better team than the Jets, and this incident
had no affect on THIS game. Do they have past tapes that might have given them an edge in this game (not saying it would have mattered). But the question is how long have they been doing this? and what do they do with the tape? Are they using it as some sort of advanced scouting, meaning they have an idea what the formations and audible calls are. So this confiscated tape just would have updated the Jets catelog. Do they have one for every team? You would think if they were taping the Jets (who are not a good team), you would think that they have tapes against the Colts and Chargers. Basically it just gives them an unfair advantage against every team that they have an illegal tape on. They probably have a catelog on every team in the league. If the NFL could somehow prove this then Mr. Belichek might really be in some deep S#!%.

[JJP]

I think they've already proven that and Mr. Belichek's wallet would have to agree also.

If you get caught cheating once, it opens up a whole new can of worms. Have to wonder if they aren't cheating in other ways. Remember Sammy Sosa with the corked bat? I think even the most naive non-believer in steroids would've had to say, "yeah, it probably was more than weights with Sammy".

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I think the Pats are a much better team than the Jets, and this incident
had no affect on THIS game. Do they have past tapes that might have given them an edge in this game (not saying it would have mattered). But the question is how long have they been doing this? and what do they do with the tape? Are they using it as some sort of advanced scouting, meaning they have an idea what the formations and audible calls are. So this confiscated tape just would have updated the Jets catelog. Do they have one for every team? You would think if they were taping the Jets (who are not a good team), you would think that they have tapes against the Colts and Chargers. Basically it just gives them an unfair advantage against every team that they have an illegal tape on. They probably have a catelog on every team in the league. If the NFL could somehow prove this then Mr. Belichek might really be in some deep S#!%.

you would have to assume that they didn't just tape the team they were playing currently. did someone tape this weeks opponent last week?