Cigar was the best horse in the last 30 years

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Based on what I think was their ability levels, not accomplishments. Had they run as many times as Cigar did, I think they would have accomplished quite a bit more than they did. I was only listing them according to what I thought each horse was capable of at his best. I thought Cigar's best attribute was his consistency, not his brilliance.

This is what makes all these comparisons difficult. How can anyone really compare two horses like say..........Ghostzapper and John Henry and determine who was "better"? One guy could point to speed figs and overall winning percentage in races and conclude that Ghostzapper was CLEARLY better. Another could look at number of G1 races won and decide that John Henry was far and away a better horse. Which one is right? It all depends. Personally I would rate John Henry higher than Ghostzapper because he accomplished a lot more. But if the two were to square off in a race on the dirt, I would pick Ghostzapper. It almost seems like this question of who is the "best" is actually two different questions merged into one.
1) Who accomplished the most?
2) Who would win if they all met in a race?

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by miraja2

This is what makes all these comparisons difficult. How can anyone really compare two horses like say..........Ghostzapper and John Henry and determine who was "better"? One guy could point to speed figs and overall winning percentage in races and conclude that Ghostzapper was CLEARLY better. Another could look at number of G1 races won and decide that John Henry was far and away a better horse. Which one is right? It all depends. Personally I would rate John Henry higher than Ghostzapper because he accomplished a lot more. But if the two were to square off in a race on the dirt, I would pick Ghostzapper. It almost seems like this question of who is the "best" is actually two different questions merged into one.
1) Who accomplished the most?
2) Who would win if they all met in a race?

I'm glad someone mentioned him in 6 pages of opinions

[Bravado2112]

Submitted without comment...

All-time Breeders' Cup Classic winning Beyer Figs:

06 - Invasor - 116
05 - Saint Liam - 112
04 - Ghostzapper - 124
03 - Pleasantly Perfect - 119
02 - Volponi - 116
01 - Tiznow - 117
00 - Tiznow - 116
99 - Cat Thief - 118
98 - Awesome Again - 116
97 - Skip Away - 120
96 - Alphabet Soup - 114
95 - Cigar - 117
94 - Concern - 115
93 - Arcangues - 114
92 - A.P. Indy - 114
91 - Black Tie Affair - 120
90 - Unbridled - 116
89 - Sunday Silence (Easy Goer) - 124
88 - Alysheba - 122
87 - Ferdinand - 117
86 - Skywalker - 118
85 - Proud Truth - 120
84 - Wild Again - 113

---------------------------------------

While we're at it. Re-posted from last year:

Cigar
BC Classic - 115
JC Gold Cup - 115
Woodward - 116
Pacific Classic - 111
Arlington - 117
Mass Cap - 112
Donn - 117

BC Classic - 117
JC Gold Cup - 111
Woodward - 111
Hol Gold Cup - 118
Mass Cap - 117
Pim Special - 114
Oaklawn - 121
GP Handicap - 116
Donn - 114
Alw - 108

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Bravado2112

84 - Wild Again - 113

If that's correct, that means Princess Rooney ran a 121 Beyer for winning the Breeders Cup Distaff in '84 (by 7 lengths over Life's Magic). As her race, at the same ten furlong distance, went a full second faster than the Classic.

FWIW, Life's Magic won the '85 BC Distaff by 6 1/4 lengths over Lady's Secret. Lady's Secret won the '86 BC Distaff and the coveted title Horse of the Year.

Interesting that the 2nd place finisher of the first two BC Distaffs came back to win the following year.

It's hard to believe that Princess Rooney actually holds the record for fastest Beyer figure in BC Distaff history, and not Inside Information (who ran a 119)

Princess Rooney went 6-for-6 at age two - after an 18 length ALW win at Calder, she made her stakes debut ten days later and won by 12 lengths. From there, she shipped to Belmont and ran in a 13 horse field in the Grade 1 Frizette, which she won by 8 lengths. The 3rd place finisher, Weekend Surprise, was the dam of both Preakness winner Summer Squall and Belmont winner A. P. Indy.

She made her final start of her 2yo season in the Grade 2 Gardenia Stakes, which she won by 11 lengths. The 2nd place finisher in that race had won a Grade 1 stake in her prior start.

Princess Rooney was a Grade 1 winning filly with a perfect 6-for-6 record, winning her six races by a combined 56 lengths, for a 9.33 length average margin of victory. However, she lost champion 2yo filly honors to the deceased Landaluce, who went 5-for-5, also with a single Gr 1 win. She won her five races by a combined 46.5 lengths, for a 9.30 average margin of victory.

I wonder how close the vote was that year?

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

If that's correct, that means Princess Rooney ran a 121 Beyer for winning the Breeders Cup Distaff in '84 (by 7 lengths over Life's Magic). As her race, at the same ten furlong distance, went a full second faster than the Classic.

FWIW, Life's Magic won the '85 BC Distaff by 6 1/4 lengths over Lady's Secret. Lady's Secret won the '86 BC Distaff and the coveted title Horse of the Year.

Interesting that the 2nd place finisher of the first two BC Distaffs came back to win the following year.

It's hard to believe that Princess Rooney actually holds the record for fastest Beyer figure in BC Distaff history, and not Inside Information (who ran a 119)

Princess Rooney went 6-for-6 at age two - after an 18 length ALW win at Calder, she made her stakes debut ten days later and won by 12 lengths. From there, she shipped to Belmont and ran in a 13 horse field in the Grade 1 Frizette, which she won by 8 lengths. The 3rd place finisher, Weekend Surprise, was the dam of both Preakness winner Summer Squall and Belmont winner A. P. Indy.

She made her final start of her 2yo season in the Grade 2 Gardenia Stakes, which she won by 11 lengths. The 2nd place finisher in that race had won a Grade 1 stake in her prior start.

Princess Rooney was a Grade 1 winning filly with a perfect 6-for-6 record, winning her six races by a combined 56 lengths, for a 9.33 length average margin of victory. However, she lost champion 2yo filly honors to the deceased Landaluce, who went 5-for-5, also with a single Gr 1 win. She won her five races by a combined 46.5 lengths, for a 9.30 average margin of victory.

I wonder how close the vote was that year?

I don't know but it makes me wonder who the best filly/mare is since 1980.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane

I don't know but it makes me wonder who the best filly/mare is since 1980.

Your answer:

Go for Wand. Any filly that can win a grade one at 7f in 1:21 then come back nine days later and win a grade one at 10f in 2:00 4/5........then later come back to run 9f in 1:45 4/5........as a 3yo filly.......is unique. She beat older mares twice in grade one races and IMO, was on the verge of winning the BC Distaff before going down. Even had she lost, she was going to run Bayakoa to the wire and Bayakoa was another of the really great racemares we've had since 1980.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane

I don't know but it makes me wonder who the best filly/mare is since 1980.

It's impossible to know.

Princess Rooney would certainly have a strong look if you are talking about a race run at a distance of nine furlongs or further.

She ran four times in her career at nine furlongs or further - all in Grade 1 stake races - and she won each time. She was 20-17-2-1 overall in dirt races.

There are about a dozen who you could make a good case for in my opinion.

[cmorioles]

I'd probably go with Inside Information.

[Bravado2112]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

If that's correct, that means Princess Rooney ran a 121 Beyer for winning the Breeders Cup Distaff in '84 (by 7 lengths over Life's Magic). As her race, at the same ten furlong distance, went a full second faster than the Classic.

FWIW, Life's Magic won the '85 BC Distaff by 6 1/4 lengths over Lady's Secret. Lady's Secret won the '86 BC Distaff and the coveted title Horse of the Year.

Interesting that the 2nd place finisher of the first two BC Distaffs came back to win the following year.

It's hard to believe that Princess Rooney actually holds the record for fastest Beyer figure in BC Distaff history, and not Inside Information (who ran a 119)

Princess Rooney went 6-for-6 at age two - after an 18 length ALW win at Calder, she made her stakes debut ten days later and won by 12 lengths. From there, she shipped to Belmont and ran in a 13 horse field in the Grade 1 Frizette, which she won by 8 lengths. The 3rd place finisher, Weekend Surprise, was the dam of both Preakness winner Summer Squall and Belmont winner A. P. Indy.

She made her final start of her 2yo season in the Grade 2 Gardenia Stakes, which she won by 11 lengths. The 2nd place finisher in that race had won a Grade 1 stake in her prior start.

Princess Rooney was a Grade 1 winning filly with a perfect 6-for-6 record, winning her six races by a combined 56 lengths, for a 9.33 length average margin of victory. However, she lost champion 2yo filly honors to the deceased Landaluce, who went 5-for-5, also with a single Gr 1 win. She won her five races by a combined 46.5 lengths, for a 9.30 average margin of victory.

I wonder how close the vote was that year?

Hey Drugs. Yep - Princess Rooney does have the fastest Distaff...a 120. Here are the BC Distaff #'s:

Distaff
06 - Round Pond - 100
05 - Pleasant Home - 107
04 - Ashado - 102
03 - Adoaration - 101
02 - Azeri - 111
01 - Unbridled Elaine - 102
00 - Spain - 108
99 - Beautiful Pleasure - 109
98 - Escena - 105
97 - Ajina - 108
96 - Jewel Princess - 114
95 - Inside Information - 119
94 - One Dreamer - 105
93 - Hollywood Wildcat - 108
92 - Paseana - 105
91 - Dance Smartly - 107
90 - Bayakoa - 113
89 - Bayakoa - 115
88 - Personal Ensign - 115
87 - Sacahuista - 106
86 - Lady's Secret - 113
85 - Life's Magic - 110
84 - Princess Rooney - 120

Princess Rooney had a helluva record. There are so many horses like that (Bold N Determined, Genuine Risk etc) with incredible records. I suspect you have the DRF Champions book as well...

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Bravado2112

I suspect you have the DRF Champions book as well...

I have the original edition.

It's falling apart though.