Arlignton Poly

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

Race horses often wear front shoe toe-grabs. Enables them to grab the track (obviously). If they don't wear them, they generally don't run as fast, as their footing may not be as "sure" on the track. Some horses may seem to slip and slide around a bit, which can vary from track to track according to the surface.

The height of toe grabs are measured in millimeters. A millimeter is very tiny (it's very roughly 1/25 of an inch). "Regular" toe grabs are 6.4 millimeters in height. "High" toe grabs are 9.5 millimeters in height.

These are relatively tiny physical differences to the eye, especially compared to the size of the horse wearing them.

If you were betting on a certain horse at Mountaineer repeatedly, you might be surprised if he suddenly couldn't seem to get ahold of the track, and put in a bad performance, if he ran up the track? What if you learned his trainer didn't use his usual toe grabs for that effort?

There is a model rule to ban toe grabs over 4 millimeters in height.

Would you vote in favor of this rule, seeing that the horse you bet on may suddenly, without the regular or high toe grabs he's used to, flounder around and run up the track?

It has been found (by a researcher at UC Davis) that a race horse wearing high toe grabs is 16 times more likely to suffer a catastrophic breakdown. That's due to the toe grabs alone - not any predisposing factors.

Should a ban on toe grabs greater than 4 millimeters be supported?

How will gamblers react, if this rule is put into place universally, when certain horses who always "ran well" now can't seem to pull off the same performance repeatedly under the new rules?

Should we rather just keep the high toe grabs, and, "try to make the dirt surfaces safer" ?

How would you feel if you owned a race horse, and your trainer regularly put high toe grabs on your horse?

i've read several studies on toe grabs, i think they should be done away with. was not happy when woodbine caved and allowed them after initially saying NO. chrb has been back and forth on it. they should not be--but part of the problem would be owners who have horses who run on them, and don't want to do away with them--which makes you wonder just how much 'horse' is in those horsemen! and how much is $$$.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i've read several studies on toe grabs, i think they should be done away with. was not happy when woodbine caved and allowed them after initially saying NO. chrb has been back and forth on it. they should not be--but part of the problem would be owners who have horses who run on them, and don't want to do away with them--which makes you wonder just how much 'horse' is in those horsemen! and how much is $$$.

I have yet to see one of these studies and until I do I remain skeptical about their claims. I know a few real horseman that not only like toegrabs but regularly use mud caulks even on dry tracks. 2 guys you may have heard of. Jerkens and Zito.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I have yet to see one of these studies and until I do I remain skeptical about their claims. I know a few real horseman that not only like toegrabs but regularly use mud caulks even on dry tracks. 2 guys you may have heard of. Jerkens and Zito.

Sigh ... I'm just going to have to get you subscriptions to the Equine Veterinary Journal and American Journal of Veterinary Research so you can keep up with it all!

PS - always bet the horse wearing mud calks

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Sigh ... I'm just going to have to get you subscriptions to the Equine Veterinary Journal and American Journal of Veterinary Research so you can keep up with it all!

PS - always bet the horse wearing mud calks

Where do they get their data?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Where do they get their data?

From research. They are both peer-reviewed journals. You do some research, write up your findings, then send it in, and hope it gets accepted for publication (if it has something to offer). The editorial board of specialists in your field review it, if it passes their scrutiny (they often send it back to you for revision) then it gets published, then everyone else in your field can write letters to the editor telling how your conclusions were in error, your methodology was suspect, etc. If it survives challenge as to the validity of the findings and/or conclusion (people often disagree on the conclusions to be drawn from valid research datum), it becomes accepted as part of the current scientific knowledge base.

Or you could read the Daily Herald.

If you read the original work by Watson and Crick as published, it's alot more fun to look in the next issue of the magazine. There are a couple of letters to the editor questioning the validity of their conclusion regarding the double-helix structure of DNA. Fighting scientists are fun

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I have yet to see one of these studies and until I do I remain skeptical about their claims. I know a few real horseman that not only like toegrabs but regularly use mud caulks even on dry tracks. 2 guys you may have heard of. Jerkens and Zito.

Contessa almost ALWAYS uses mud caulks, especially on the inner track. I asked him about it and he said it's the only way the horses can grip on the half-frozen dirt in the winter. Makes sense to me.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I have yet to see one of these studies and until I do I remain skeptical about their claims. I know a few real horseman that not only like toegrabs but regularly use mud caulks even on dry tracks. 2 guys you may have heard of. Jerkens and Zito.

it's not whether people like to use them or not, it's whether they should. no doubt horsemen who use them like them.

the article i read most recently showed the angle of a horses foot with and without toe grabs and the subsequent effects on his foot as well as his leg. talked about incidents of injury and such. i also know that woodbine banned them, and then allowed them back up to a certain size due to their problems with the poly last winter. seems a controversial issue--but then what isn't on the track these days?