A new poll - for men only

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I don't know how else I can say I am not talking about wagering. The race was a joke. I don't really know how else to explain it other than say if there was no poly. If I told you Student Council won the Pacific Classic you would tell me I am nuts.
Well he did, strictly because of the poly. Also, since he had never really showed a fondness for the poly, it just doesn't make sense. I know, Jerry Brown liked him, blah blah. Maybe I am a bit of a traditionalist but it has ruined racing out west for me. And this is not me being sour because I lost. I made one bet at Del Mar yesterday, a turf race. I won't tell you if I hit it or not, because I wouldn't want to be a dreaded redboarder. You like it, because you have had some success on it. I tend to think your opinion might be different if you didn't. We saw how quick Titan's changed.

Maybe I'm missing the point too -- but I enjoyed yesterday's race.

On poly, on dirt, anywhere -- that would have been a stupid weak Pacific Classic. I do understand those lamenting how speed horses don't hold their speed on some of the artifical surfaces, but in a way, I don't think that's an entirely bad thing for the future of the breed.

Someone above (cm?) mentioned that he used to love watching horses blaze out and dare someone to catch them -- maybe we're talking specifically about Del Mar only with that feeling, but I certainly enjoyed watching horses do that, and at a place like Arlington, still find it thrilling to watch that happen. Obviously Del Mar's surface needs to be worked on a bit and they'll need to adjust it to the weather/other outside factors, but I consider myself a "fan" of the game and I still enjoyed watching yesterday's race. It looked like a crapshoot going in, and looked like a crapshoot coming out, so I'm not seeing the problem. When you've got a field comprised of mostly glorified West Coast mid-to-high-end claimers, isn't Student Council winning a GI sort of the thing you should expect to be possible?

[fpsoxfan]

Sure, it was nice to see Student Council win, but the final time is what did it for me. Does it even the playing field? Yes Does it make us all handicap differently? Yes Is it safer for horses? Most likely Is it real horse racing?
No way

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

If you think the poly will change the future of the breed I have a bridge to seel you also. Maybe I'm too simplistic. Student phucking Council just won the Pacific Classic. Sorry if seeing his name up there with past winners of the Pacific Classic bothers me. It used to be a prestigious race. Now it's the Claiming Crown Classic.

You must still be really pissed off about Sutra, too, eh?

**** happens.

Horses who shouldn't be GI winners become GI winners from time to time.

[booner]

I'll take the race. Something about a 385 pound woman spinning around a pole on an elevated stage doesn't sound appealing.......but maybe it's just me.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Apples and oranges and you know that. Keep trying.

I don’t know that.

Explain.

Why doesn’t Student Council deserve to be a Grade I winner? Because of the slow time? Because of the way the race was run? Sutra’s was exactly the same thing, she accidentally won a Grade I race. I don’t see anything different about it. Is it the shape of the race, the way speed stopped, or the strength of the field? I could be talking about either Sutra or Student Council with those questions.

Stuff happens, and horses win races that they shouldn’t win on paper, and don’t deserve to win on paper. It’s no different than a horse winning from 20 lengths off in a six furlong Grade I after three horses go the opening half in 44 1/5 – the race is just given to them.

Obviously I’m missing the difference in what you’re saying, because I’m not seeing any legit reason to moan about Sunday’s result still.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

I don’t know that.

Explain.

Why doesn’t Student Council deserve to be a Grade I winner? Because of the slow time? Because of the way the race was run? Sutra’s was exactly the same thing, she accidentally won a Grade I race. I don’t see anything different about it. Is it the shape of the race, the way speed stopped, or the strength of the field? I could be talking about either Sutra or Student Council with those questions.

Stuff happens, and horses win races that they shouldn’t win on paper, and don’t deserve to win on paper. It’s no different than a horse winning from 20 lengths off in a six furlong Grade I after three horses go the opening half in 44 1/5 – the race is just given to them.

Obviously I’m missing the difference in what you’re saying, because I’m not seeing any legit reason to moan about Sunday’s result still.

G1 races in the Classic Division are held to a far greater level of scrutiny than races from any other division (especially 2yo fillies). These races are supposed to be the best of the best.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

G1 races in the Classic Division are held to a far greater level of scrutiny than races from any other division (especially 2yo fillies). These races are supposed to be the best of the best.

So it's the field strength then?

That's a fair answer.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

So it's the field strength then?

That's a fair answer.

That and it just being the glamour division.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

There is no way either one of us are going to chnge our opinion on this, so let's just agree to disagree.

Ok, if I don't explain anything that I think while asking what the problem is, then could you explain?

You're not explaining why it's different when Sutra wins a ridiculous Grade I than when Student Council wins one, except to say that it's apples and oranges, which I don't think it is. So I'm asking.

If you don't like the question and think I'm just badgering you, then I'll shut up.

I'm only asking for the sake of trying to understand because I'm clearly not getting where you're coming from.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Ok, if I don't explain anything that I think while asking what the problem is, then could you explain?

You're not explaining why it's different when Sutra wins a ridiculous Grade I than when Student Council wins one, except to say that it's apples and oranges, which I don't think it is. So I'm asking.

If you don't like the question and think I'm just badgering you, then I'll shut up.

I'm only asking for the sake of trying to understand because I'm clearly not getting where you're coming from.

Sutra winning a G 1 was pretty ridiculous but those things happen with very lightly raced horses. In the Male dirt G 1 "division" just 10 years ago a horse like Student Council would have been 50-1 or 60-1 instead of 23-1. Horses like him could step into a G2 or G3 race and win but not in a G1. It just did not happen. That's the biggest problem, horses using G 1's as preps, making every race other than the BC a sub-plot. Then you toss in the Polytrack and and there's no longer any conventional wisdom. Peolpe just like their traditions, especially in horse racing. Personally, I don't care for the Polytrack but I don't bet Calif or Keeneland or AP anyway. But there certainly is opportunity for gain for people who can handicap it properly. I just think people are saddened that a race with the tradition and meaning like the Pacific Classic is compromised by the surface change.

[Cajungator26]

This thread would have been so much better with some female intervention.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

This thread would have been so much better with some female intervention.

cajun, the restriction on females was for the original question only, about obese strippers vs dmr poly.

feel free to join in now. all women are welcome!

xcept morticia, of course.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

This thread would have been so much better with some female intervention.

Nothing could of helped this thread.