Lava Man

miraja2 · #1 08-20-2007, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

I don't care that Lava Man lost.

In fact I wagered for him to lose, and I expected him to lose.

I still didn't hit! Everybody and their mother boxed Lava Man and the two Mitchell horses, so the 3-10 exactas were pitiful and I felt they had a decent chance. I didn't want to box 7 horses in an exacta and get a $25 payout. I kept my wagers to a 10cent super and bet 4 horses to win.

Too bad I didn't handicap purely for pedigree. Student Council is simply a solid horse. He has a good pedigree for the surface and had a lot of stamina. Awesome Gem was moving but Student Council had better position.

This surface wasn't exactly kind to closers either. Horses just got exhausted and the couple that could keep going, or took to the track carried on. Gem must have loved the track because he was the only real deep closer.
Sun Boat couldn't swim , and Booster actually ran well to be able to close a little in this type of surface/distance/race

Gem should dominate at a cut back in distance at Del Mar but he won't be a price.

This isn't sour grapes , even if I won i would say this was garbage. Terrible aesthetics! I don't wan't to watch and wager and handicap european polytrack racing.

I honestly believe that the horses from the Arlington Million and Sworddancer would have bested the dirt horses on this surface and distance.

It was a big money-making joke to install these surfaces. All under the guise of "safety". With all the breakdowns on turf will they rip that out and just run polytrack races ONLY? yeah right

Next year the Breeders Cup is going to be on Santa Anita synthetic track...

Yes, and I agree that that is rather unfortunate. I wish they wouldn't run BC races on that stuff, BUT as I said earlier, it is important to remember that Santa Anita and Del Mar aren't going to play the same way simply because they both have polytrack. I think it is fair to assume that they will be breaking 2:07 in next year's BCC.

cmorioles · #2 08-20-2007, 12:34 PM

To judge Lava Man off this race is just silly. The horse will do just fine on dirt or turf next time. Unless today's race is on poly/cushion, just draw a line through all those Hol/AP/Kee/Dmr/TP/WO races. You'll make yourself some cash.

miraja2 · #3 08-20-2007, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles

To judge Lava Man off this race is just silly. The horse will do just fine on dirt or turf next time. Unless today's race is on poly/cushion, just draw a line through all those Hol/AP/Kee/Dmr/TP/WO races. You'll make yourself some cash.

I see what you are saying, but do you really think the racing at Arlington and Hollywood is even comparable to the so-called "racing" going on at Del Mar and Keeneland.

cmorioles · #4 08-20-2007, 01:59 PM

It is certainly not on the same level. Still, I would say racing at AP and Hol is closer to Kee than a normal dirt track. The pace times of the winners, when adjusted for overall track speed, are two to three lengths slower in sprint races and three to four in route races at AP compared to the old dirt. Hollywood is very similar to AP.

At Delmar, sprints are similar to AP, and routes are way, way slower early. The average winner has to run 1 and a half seconds slower to the pace call while recording the same final time. That is about 9 lengths or so!

FYI, WO and TP have sprints nearly identical to the dirt tracks they once had. Routes have changed a few lengths, but not to the degree of the others.

Bobby Fischer · #5 08-20-2007, 05:20 PM

WO and TP are closer to dirt in speed and kindness to front-runners, but the dynamics of the race are much different.
At WO and TP the kickback is so bad that horses usually run three wide on the lead and generally race outside. Saving ground on the rail as in a dirt race will guarantee a trachea full of junk.

#6 08-21-2007, 12:31 AM

shut out test.

Echo Farm · #7 08-21-2007, 10:34 AM

http://www.drf.com/news/article/87781.html

Unstable · #8 08-20-2007, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2

Yes, and I agree that that is rather unfortunate. I wish they wouldn't run BC races on that stuff, BUT as I said earlier, it is important to remember that Santa Anita and Del Mar aren't going to play the same way simply because they both have polytrack. I think it is fair to assume that they will be breaking 2:07 in next year's BCC.

Santa Anita is installing Cushion Track (the same stuff used at Hollywood). Hopefully, they will listen to the people at Hollywood on how to maintain a fair surface. Unlike the jokers at Del Mar, who are going to run the whole meet and then decide what to do. I think I have bet 1 race at Del Mar this year so far. If I wanted a crap shoot, I'd go to Las Vegas.

King Glorious · #9 08-20-2007, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unstable

Santa Anita is installing Cushion Track (the same stuff used at Hollywood). Hopefully, they will listen to the people at Hollywood on how to maintain a fair surface. Unlike the jokers at Del Mar, who are going to run the whole meet and then decide what to do. I think I have bet 1 race at Del Mar this year so far. If I wanted a crap shoot, I'd go to Las Vegas.

That is what would make sense. I don't think anyone expected that they would get it exactly right from the start. But the comments from Harper that he wasn't going to do anything to the track till after the meet were irresponsible, IMO. I think that they should listen to the concerns of the horsemen and tinker around with it during the meet, like the other tracks have done, to get it to a consistent level. But it's like they don't want to admit that it's not totally maintenance free. It feels like if they admit that, they think they would be admitting failure and that's just not the case. It's a work in progress and should be treated as such.

Danzig · #10 08-20-2007, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

That is what would make sense. I don't think anyone expected that they would get it exactly right from the start. But the comments from Harper that he wasn't going to do anything to the track till after the meet were irresponsible, IMO. I think that they should listen to the concerns of the horsemen and tinker around with it during the meet, like the other tracks have done, to get it to a consistent level. But it's like they don't want to admit that it's not totally maintenance free. It feels like if they admit that, they think they would be admitting failure and that's just not the case. It's a work in progress and should be treated as such.

didn't hollywood encourage horsemen to let them know how the track seemed? who better to ask, and what better time to make adjustments then training time--not once the meet opens!

Danzig · #11 08-20-2007, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2

Yes, and I agree that that is rather unfortunate. I wish they wouldn't run BC races on that stuff, BUT as I said earlier, it is important to remember that Santa Anita and Del Mar aren't going to play the same way simply because they both have polytrack. I think it is fair to assume that they will be breaking 2:07 in next year's BCC.

isn't santa anita going with cushion track??? that's what hollywood has...hate to be difficult, but all artificial surfaces are NOT polytrack-which is a brand name. much like tapeta, or of course cushion--which horsemen liked just fine at hollywood.

or maybe everyone can just hire hollywoods track super and crew!

miraja2 · #12 08-21-2007, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

isn't santa anita going with cushion track??? that's what hollywood has.

Yes, which was basically the point I was trying to make to "Bobby Fischer" before. Just because Santa Anita has artificial and Del Mar has artificial doesn't mean that the '08 BC is going to look like this meet at Del Mar (thankfully). Even each polytrack plays differently, and the difference between cushion and poly seem substantial. Just ask AP Xcellent and Lava Man.

ELA · #13 08-21-2007, 11:40 AM

Tough crowd -- a real tough crowd, LOL.

Eric

gamblin4ever · #14 08-21-2007, 12:16 PM

Looking @ the PP's of the Pacific Classic, with the exception of Lava Man, none of the other horses impressed me enough to truly rule out any of them out. Here are some items I noticed of the other runners.

0 winners @ distance (LM 6 of 9)
3 GSW, (no G1's) of these 3 only Awesome Gem(2nd) has ran @ the dist.
5 has Beyered in the 100s w/ the tops being on dirt or cushion track.
Arson Squad w/106 BSF is much better on dirt.
Awesome Gem (105) top is on dirt also.

If you could rule out Lava Man on the win,the race then becomes wide open.
Looking @ the replay SC started his run earlier than AG did, and AG almost caught him.
SC just looked like a new horse on poly.

The race looked like most others on the West Coast, 1 big horse running against lower quality and he didnt fire his best.

Look @ Street Sense, he lost on polytrack and seems to favor a deeper dirt surface to run on. Unless there is a change, I won't have him on my win ticket in the BC @ Monmouth since its a speed favoring track which doesn't suit his running style.