Praise For Del Mar

[Scav]

More so, one of the strongest plays this year has been horses that had poly success at Keeneland going to Churchill, they were strong plays against and a majority of them didn't run as 'solid' as they did at Keeneland, this led to some super pick three/pick four scores at Churchill

[Scav]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I forgot who I was talking to. Thanks for the lesson.

Let me ask you this, how much have you played tracks with poly, on a consistent basis?

[ArlJim78]

The great thing about poly is the amount of misinformation going around and that people tend to react irrationally when faced with this new variable.

I find it very hard to believe that synth. is totally random surface.
One of the main problems is the belief that fast horses are better. Or horses with a high cruising rate are better. It might just be this surface plays to endurance in a very diff. way that grass. And the horses you think or thought were crap (for whatever reason; its usually price or level run at on dirt), are actually tough animals in a war of attrition on a tiring surface. Or maybe they have a hoovestrike and stride that works well on the surface under certain conditions.

There has to be a way to cap it. It may be People are going to have to change notions and old habits drastically. I just have a hard time labeling a horse as crap when he/she has just beaten 9 other horses just because I lost a bet.

Hell maybe its just a matter of a horse relaxing and not battling the surface. Especially if they have been bred for, and trained on dirt.

I am glad it is here. And I am glad it adds some confusion. Because that leaves openings for folks willing to try and figure it out. I have seen many more horses in each race on the stuff, and larger payouts. I dont see what is wrong with that unless you are stuck on old methods that dont work anymore.

Now after stating all this betting stuff. I would much rather watch a horse run on dirt because its beautiful the way the horses can stride out on it. It really makes the horses look like the great athletes they are.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I find it very hard to believe that synth. is totally random surface.

it isn't anywhere close to random. i would like to know how people are coming to this conclusion. where is the data? frankly I find it less random than dirt.

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

it isn't anywhere close to random. i would like to know how people are coming to this conclusion. where is the data? frankly I find it less random than dirt.

I will admit syn. is more confusing for me, but I really have not had time to look at it closely. So I will defer to the more resourceful, flexible, everyday cappers.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Not very consistent. I played both Keeneland meets and dabble at Cali. I just thought your "angles" are basic handicapping, no offense.

They might be basic, but the public sure hasn't picked up on them yet.

How can you argue about something that you haven't had alot of experience with?

Sometimes the simplest angles go over looked, which happens on all surfaces, but as aj said, people overreact to this stuff, all they have to do is change up their capping a little

[Scav]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

What am I arguing? I just think your angles are basic handicapping. The public, as a whole doesn't know what they are doing, which is why skilled handicappers are able to make money.

I am in the middle with Poly right now. I don't think poly is as good or as bad as it is talked about here. But I do think it was rushed into places that really didn't need it, like California. But the surface, from what I have seen, and while not betting a ton, I watch almost every race, is not easy to gauge. A simple changing up capping isn't enough on a surface that is unpredictable.

California was in DESPERATE need for it. Santa Anita track was horrible about breakdowns as was Del Mar.

I actually don't think this is as much about the actual surface but the actual bottom of the track. When installing poly track, you essentially start from ground zero, thus installing an even track. The old 'bottom' of Arlington was horrible, which led to all those breakdowns last year, with the new bottom, we have had substantially less. The recent breakdowns were because the horses were sore and had major problems, but we haven't had any healthy horses break down because of the surface, not a one

[Scav]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Disagree about Cali. They had breakdowns, but the reasons are not so clear.

Weren't a lot of the breakdowns on each surface last year because of sore horses? I seem to remember a fantastic article written by Christine janks about it. Seems like a sore horse will breakdown on any surface, so instead of spending millions and millions of dollars, how about making a concerned effort to get horses that have problems off of the track.

There were like 40 breakdowns, and about 20 of them were in the same exact on the track. Far turn near the rail

[Scav]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

What track are you talking about?

Arlington

[Scav]

"The old handicappers, the ones that have been around 30 years, are all mixed up," he said. "It's very slow. It's a brand-new project. Our old tracks, the sandy loam, were fine. We started getting problems when they started adding wood products to them, and it would ball up in their feet."

Per Bruce Headley speaking about old school handicappers having problems.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/87604.html

[Honu]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Disagree about Cali. They had breakdowns, but the reasons are not so clear.

Weren't a lot of the breakdowns on each surface last year because of sore horses? I seem to remember a fantastic article written by Christine janks about it. Seems like a sore horse will breakdown on any surface, so instead of spending millions and millions of dollars, how about making a concerned effort to get horses that have problems off of the track.

I have been at the Del -Mar meet this whole season , there has not been one horse put down on the Poly , yes there have been injuries but if some of these would have happened on the old surface those horses would be dead and that is a fact.
I still hold by my theory on betting Poly at Del Mar , look at the P.P's , horses who have ran consistant 12 's with no fast beggining 1/4 and no fast finishing 1/4 are doing well , I cashed on Threadneedle with this angle and even tho I only bet 2 across I made 38.60, I picked Karlees Kitten the other day because of said above reason and she won also. I bet on our mare Ex Caeles even tho she was a route mare shortening back up because if you looked at her lines on dirt she ran 12's. Im not a handicapper or gambler or I would bet more than 2 across , but it sure seems this could be an angle to look at .

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Honu

I have been at the Del -Mar meet this whole season , there has not been one horse put down on the Poly , yes there have been injuries but if some of these would have happened on the old surface those horses would be dead and that is a fact.
I still hold by my theory on betting Poly at Del Mar , look at the P.P's , horses who have ran consistant 12 's with no fast beggining 1/4 and no fast finishing 1/4 are doing well , I cashed on Threadneedle with this angle and even tho I only bet 2 across I made 38.60, I picked Karlees Kitten the other day because of said above reason and she won also. I bet on our mare Ex Caeles even tho she was a route mare shortening back up because if you looked at her lines on dirt she ran 12's. Im not a handicapper or gambler or I would bet more than 2 across , but it sure seems this could be an angle to look at .

Trust me...this woman knows her sh*t

[sumitas]

Instead of just burying her head in the polytrack she is actually learning. Tx...

[miraja2]

I think the addition of a third surface has to help good handicappers in the long run. Being able to track the patterns of dirt-to-poly and poly-to-dirt performances is crucial.
At Arlington, for example, there have been a number of horses coming in off nice performances at CD or Hawthorne that have been seriously overbet (especially on Saturdays when there is a lot of dead money at the track) because the switch to poly wasn't given enough consideration. I also think the "turf horses love poly" angle has been seriously overblown, so horses with good turf form are often severely overbet in their poly debuts.
So like I said, I think the addition of a third surface helps the good handicappers. That, of course, is why I hate it. I need something to help us crappy handicappers.