Godolphin/Darley article

[ELA]

Discussing the minutia, individual horses, what happened to them and the possible why, specifics about business models, protocols, proceedures -- or anything of the like, is an exercise in futility; basically because nobody is intimately familiar with these things. You can hypothesize, but that is based upon observations, and maybe commentary from principals or something of the like. You can formulate an opinion, however, again, that might be from afar or absent of facts, or it could be based upon limited knowledge. It certainly is not a qualified opinion.

So, there's an interesting article, obviously negative, but interesting. Also, there's another article. More positive, relatively speaking, but another article. We have all read a great deal about Darley/Godolphin/Shadwell/et al, and about Coolmore. They can both be fascinating reads. The business is what the business is, and economics are what is driving the business today.

Be that as it may, it is quite obvious that NoChanceToDance has an agenda. Whether it's an agenda, baggage, or an axe to grind, it doesn't matter -- the opinion -- and I stress opinion as opposed to fact -- is obviously not an objective one. Say what you like, but I think that is the only thing close to a fact that most people here would and could agree with.

Whether or not the ruling family of Dubai is good for the business or not, or whether or not Coolmore is good or bad for the breeding business, and all of those heated discussions -- they will all be debated time and time again.

Eric

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by ELA

Discussing the minutia, individual horses, what happened to them and the possible why, specifics about business models, protocols, proceedures -- or anything of the like, is an exercise in futility; basically because nobody is intimately familiar with these things. You can hypothesize, but that is based upon observations, and maybe commentary from principals or something of the like. You can formulate an opinion, however, again, that might be from afar or absent of facts, or it could be based upon limited knowledge. It certainly is not a qualified opinion.

So, there's an interesting article, obviously negative, but interesting. Also, there's another article. More positive, relatively speaking, but another article. We have all read a great deal about Darley/Godolphin/Shadwell/et al, and about Coolmore. They can both be fascinating reads. The business is what the business is, and economics are what is driving the business today.

Be that as it may, it is quite obvious that NoChanceToDance has an agenda. Whether it's an agenda, baggage, or an axe to grind, it doesn't matter -- the opinion -- and I stress opinion as opposed to fact -- is obviously not an objective one. Say what you like, but I think that is the only thing close to a fact that most people here would and could agree with.

Whether or not the ruling family of Dubai is good for the business or not, or whether or not Coolmore is good or bad for the breeding business, and all of those heated discussions -- they will all be debated time and time again.

Eric

A well written post.

From what i have been told from good friends who are employees and ex employees at Godolphin all i can gather from the article is that it is well informed in many areas.

These people would not lie to me, which is why i am calling it truth.

As you say, the debate will be continued time and time again. I don't like the way they buy the competition time after time when it isn't working for them. Buying success can work within reason, but not to the extent they are doing it. Especially when the horses they buy mid way through their racing career obviously don't adapt well to their training methods (well, that is the only reason i can suggest). Think of all of the good horses they have purchased that have since either been injured or seriously lost their form. Hinterland, Imperial Stride, Best name, Best Alibi, Vista Bella, Caradak, Court Masterpiece, Dijeerr, Kirklees, Palace Episode, The Geezer, Opera Cape, Mount Hadley, Short Skirt, Rallying Cry, Silca's Sister, Windsor Knot....... there are more. All of these have been purchased or transfered to Godolphin within the last few years, and you cannot say that all of these are down to bad luck.

Now compare that with horses they have paid huge amounts for that they have actually had success with over the past few years....... the only few i can think of are Daylami, Ramonti, Stage Gift and maybe include Utopia on that list but i've heard nothing about him since he won in the U.S (anyone know anything??).

Now, if that doesn't suggest something is wrong with their training techniques, i don't know what does.

Maybe it's Dubai, maybe horses cannot cope with shipping back and forth there every year for a few months?

There is something wrong somewhere, and i'm fed up of seeing these good horses disappearing off the face of the earth as soon as they come into the care of Godolphin.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

A well written post.

From what i have been told from good friends who are employees and ex employees at Godolphin all i can gather from the article is that it is well informed in many areas.

These people would not lie to me, which is why i am calling it truth.

As you say, the debate will be continued time and time again. I don't like the way they buy the competition time after time when it isn't working for them. Buying success can work within reason, but not to the extent they are doing it. Especially when the horses they buy mid way through their racing career obviously don't adapt well to their training methods (well, that is the only reason i can suggest). Think of all of the good horses they have purchased that have since either been injured or seriously lost their form. Hinterland, Imperial Stride, Best name, Best Alibi, Vista Bella, Caradak, Court Masterpiece, Dijeerr, Kirklees, Palace Episode, The Geezer, Opera Cape, Mount Hadley, Short Skirt, Rallying Cry, Silca's Sister, Windsor Knot....... there are more. All of these have been purchased or transfered to Godolphin within the last few years, and you cannot say that all of these are down to bad luck.

Now compare that with horses they have paid huge amounts for that they have actually had success with over the past few years....... the only few i can think of are Daylami, Ramonti, Stage Gift and maybe include Utopia on that list but i've heard nothing about him since he won in the U.S (anyone know anything??).

Now, if that doesn't suggest something is wrong with their training techniques, i don't know what does.

Maybe it's Dubai, maybe horses cannot cope with shipping back and forth there every year for a few months?

There is something wrong somewhere, and i'm fed up of seeing these good horses disappearing off the face of the earth as soon as they come into the care of Godolphin.

Common wisdom says no one man can change the world. In fact, that is the only way change occurs. I don't agree with you, but carry on!

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Common wisdom says no one man can change the world. In fact, that is the only way change occurs. I don't agree with you, but carry on!

What don't you agree with?

One more not agreeing with me is not going to change the world though

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

What don't you agree with?

One more not agreeing with me is not going to change the world though

I would not consider comments made by a friend about a former employer as objective.

Nor would my friends consider the same comments from me as objective.

The rest? Opinion. Good? Bad? I don't know.

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

I would not consider comments made by a friend about a former employer as objective.

Nor would my friends consider the same comments from me as objective.

The rest? Opinion. Good? Bad? I don't know.

That is the problem, one of my friend's is a former employer, but the other two are current employees, and if anything, it is the former employee who is being the nicer in his words.

He did agree with the article having worked at the same level as Crisford etc. Their staff turnover is very high, something which i didn't realise.

I know their is a lot of unrest in the camp at the moment, and much of it is to do with the training techniques and who should be training the horses. There are certain people that have got in "far too deep", if they took more of a back seat role and got on with the jobs they are employed to do, i think the operation will start to role again. But why they think that they can buy the competition for success they will continue to fail.

As i have said, maybe now they have a few (what look to be) outstanding stallion prospects they will discontinue to 'scatter' buy at any cost, and start to put faith into their breeding operation. I hope that is the case, because they are killing racing over here by doing that, racing fans don't like it and they are getting frustrated (like me)

[my miss storm cat]

As an aside, since you mentioned Caradak he's doing well.

I don't need to comment on the rest.....

What you're doing now is posting the same thing over and over and merely changing the words around.

It seems you're looking for a fight and lording over this thread, demanding answers from anyone who would disagree.

Is it that hard to respect opinions other than your own?

This whole I-know-best-cause-my-friends-told-me mentality is getting old.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

A well written post.

From what i have been told from good friends who are employees and ex employees at Godolphin all i can gather from the article is that it is well informed in many areas.

These people would not lie to me, which is why i am calling it truth.

As you say, the debate will be continued time and time again. I don't like the way they buy the competition time after time when it isn't working for them. Buying success can work within reason, but not to the extent they are doing it. Especially when the horses they buy mid way through their racing career obviously don't adapt well to their training methods (well, that is the only reason i can suggest). Think of all of the good horses they have purchased that have since either been injured or seriously lost their form. Hinterland, Imperial Stride, Best name, Best Alibi, Vista Bella, Caradak, Court Masterpiece, Dijeerr, Kirklees, Palace Episode, The Geezer, Opera Cape, Mount Hadley, Short Skirt, Rallying Cry, Silca's Sister, Windsor Knot....... there are more. All of these have been purchased or transfered to Godolphin within the last few years, and you cannot say that all of these are down to bad luck.

Now compare that with horses they have paid huge amounts for that they have actually had success with over the past few years....... the only few i can think of are Daylami, Ramonti, Stage Gift and maybe include Utopia on that list but i've heard nothing about him since he won in the U.S (anyone know anything??).

Now, if that doesn't suggest something is wrong with their training techniques, i don't know what does.

Maybe it's Dubai, maybe horses cannot cope with shipping back and forth there every year for a few months?

There is something wrong somewhere, and i'm fed up of seeing these good horses disappearing off the face of the earth as soon as they come into the care of Godolphin.

Not to go through every horse on your list, but i noticed that Palace Episode is entered at Saratoga on Wednesday.