Zayat is Leaving; Baffert hates it

The Bid · #1 08-07-2007, 09:29 AM

The legitiment complaint is the fastest horses arent winning. The public will adjust to bad horses with a correct running style once they establish patterns. That will not change lesser horses winning races, and that is a serious problem

ArlJim78 · #2 08-07-2007, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bid

The legitiment complaint is the fastest horses arent winning. The public will adjust to bad horses with a correct running style once they establish patterns. That will not change lesser horses winning races, and that is a serious problem

how do you reach the conclusion that the fastest horses aren't winning?
how about an example?

The Bid · #3 08-07-2007, 09:49 AM

Zayed yesterday at Del Mar. On a conventional track he wins

I dont think Senator Matty compromised him nearly as much as the surface

ArlJim78 · #4 08-07-2007, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bid

Zayed yesterday at Del Mar. On a conventional track he wins

I dont think Senator Matty compromised him nearly as much as the surface

what is your technique for determining in advance which is the fastest horse is in the race?

also,

does the horse you have determined is the fastest always win on dirt tracks?

VOL JACK · #5 08-07-2007, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

how do you reach the conclusion that the fastest horses aren't winning?
how about an example?

An example is the whole Keeneland meet.

The Bid · #6 08-07-2007, 10:46 AM

Good example VJ

ArlJim78 · #7 08-07-2007, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

An example is the whole Keeneland meet.

just as I suspected, you guys just shoot from the hip with little quips like this, but can never back anything up.

the statement you are defending is that the fastest horses don't win on poly.
where is the data? what brought you to that conclusion?

I have already posted the data that shows that the public is doing a pretty good job at picking the winners at Del Mar. Are you suggesting that the public is suddenly not using speed when determining who to wager on? that they are intentionally bypassing the fastest horses in the race.

The Bid · #8 08-07-2007, 11:41 AM

Jim, are you sure you are watching the races? Any buffoon can open up a form and see the fastest horses arent winning races. When slow grass horses are winning sprints on the maintrack the fastest horses arent winning the races.

ArlJim78 · #9 08-07-2007, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bid

Jim, are you sure you are watching the races? Any buffoon can open up a form and see the fastest horses arent winning races. When slow grass horses are winning sprints on the maintrack the fastest horses arent winning the races.

I watch every Del Mar race, and review the pp's before and after, and I can tell you that I have no clue what you are talking about when you say the fastest horses aren't winning.

If it is so easy with dirt, why can't you answer my very simple questions? how do you determine in advance who is the fastest horse in the race? are you going by last race BSF? do you average all beyers? do you go by TG's

whatever method you use can you tell me that on dirt the fastest horse always wins? I would agree if you say that the fastest horse that day wins, but I don't think that is what you are saying.

is it at all possible that you simply are not good at handicapping polytrack?
I ask because you never give any examples, you only speak in wild generalities like "any buffoon can see" blah blah blah. you also seem to handicap using one dimension "who is the fastest horse".

have you really never seen a horse come off the turf and win a main track sprint? really? In general I salivate when I see a quality turf horse shorten up and move to the main track, dirt or poly. maybe you haven't noticed but the end of a turf route is run like a sprint.

cmorioles · #10 08-07-2007, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

how do you reach the conclusion that the fastest horses aren't winning?
how about an example?

How many graded stakes winners on polytrack have went on to repeat the success on dirt? How many have flopped?

It has pluses and minuses, but it is most definitely a third surface. If you have to pick, it is closer to turf than dirt. I am not saying that is good or bad, but it is not what was advertised.

The Bid · #11 08-07-2007, 01:44 PM

I sent you a message jim, as opposed to arguing.

Riot · #12 08-07-2007, 02:17 PM

Quote:

It has pluses and minuses, but it is most definitely a third surface. If you have to pick, it is closer to turf than dirt. I am not saying that is good or bad, but it is not what was advertised.

I don't know what you mean when you say, " ... it is not what was advertised."

cmorioles · #13 08-07-2007, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot

I don't know what you mean when you say, " ... it is not what was advertised."

It was supposed to replace, but behave similarly, to dirt. It does not.

Riot · #14 08-07-2007, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles

It was supposed to replace, but behave similarly, to dirt. It does not.

Thanks.

SniperSB23 · #15 08-07-2007, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles

It was supposed to replace, but behave similarly, to dirt. It does not.

It was also advertised to be an all weather surface yet has tons of problems in extreme heat or cold. The claims of no maintenance proved to be very untrue as well.

Riot · #16 08-07-2007, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

It was also advertised to be an all weather surface yet has tons of problems in extreme heat or cold. The claims of no maintenance proved to be very untrue as well.

Compared to dirt, it most certainly seems to hold up alot better with less problems - Turfway has proved that in the cold, the track was open on freezing days they couldn't possibly have run on the dirt. The Keeneland Poly training track is open virtually every day all summer and winter - a dirt track couldn't be. It's holding up to the 90-degree, high humidity weather in KY today just fine.

We'll see how it holds up to heat in California. So far Hollywood has with Cushion, we'll have to see how Poly does. I read the manufacturer made the Poly in CA a little different than the Poly in KY.

I've never seen the manufacturers claim any of the artificials to be "no" maintenance. The claims I've seen is less maintenance than dirt. That's certainly true.

Riot · #17 08-07-2007, 02:18 PM

Quote:

How many graded stakes winners on polytrack have went on to repeat the success on dirt? How many have flopped?

Give us your data!

cmorioles · #18 08-07-2007, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot

Give us your data!

No.

Riot · #19 08-07-2007, 02:32 PM

Quote:

How many graded stakes winners on polytrack have went on to repeat the success on dirt? How many have flopped?

Give us your data!

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles

No.

Then I can't hold the opinion that graded stakes winners on poly are destined to flop on dirt, or have a significan risk of flopping on dirt. My opinion is open to change if anyone posts something here that shows it to be so.

Cajungator26 · #20 08-07-2007, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot

Give us your data!

Then I can't hold the opinion that graded stakes winners on poly are destined to flop on dirt, or have a significan risk of flopping on dirt. My opinion is open to change if anyone posts something here that shows it to be so.

Dominican? All kidding aside, he seems to be somewhat of a poly specialist.