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#1
07-30-2007, 11:12 PM
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I'm certainly not an expert on any of these different synthetic surfaces, but as I've said before I used to love to bet keeneland, but not after the fall and spring meet. I don't bet much left coast racing, so wagering wise it hasn't affected me. The bottom line is I really haven't heard much good about synthetic surfaces. I dread the day this arrives to Churchill or any of the NY tracks. I credit Zayat for speaking his mind.
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#2
07-31-2007, 10:07 AM
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In college, I did a few projects on Polytrack, before it was ever installed in any track besides the Keeneland Training track. One of the big 'sells' of it, was that it would save the tracks something like $400,000 per year on maintenance fees. I think that is a reason Martin Collins does not want to admit it needs to be watered, because then that selling point would be mute.
Also at this past year's Arizona Symposium, all the artificial surface guys were out in full force, and let me tell ya, Polytrack was by far the WORSE surface out of all of them. I held a few different kind of surfaces, and my favorite was Cushion, when you picked it up, it did not bulk up into a snowball like Poly did. It was consistant and looked like a good surface. Polytrack was sooo clumpy and disgusting that it wouldnt even come off my hands unless I scrubbed them. It just left my hands grimey and full of wax/sand. It clumped up and was so messy. No good IMO. Tapeta was good and the fourth brand which name is excaping me was good also. Polytrack definatley had the most problems. I really think the tracks made a mistake by going with Polytrack instead of the other surfaces. Polytrack was the first to really market itself, and with Keenelands backing (they own 50 percent of the American product) and the fact that other UK tracks had used it, the US tracks decided to buy it. Now since the tracks spent 8-10 million dollars to install it, they have to promote it. I feel like if the tracks went with Cushion instead, we would not hear the complaining that we are getting with Poly.
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#4
07-31-2007, 11:13 AM
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This is really a tough situation.
What I hear from people who work, train and ride on the track is that the track feels great and it definitely has a positive long range effect on the horses health. That being said no one likes racing on it. The consistency, while softer then dirt is just not there. From a handicapping perspective it has totally eliminated speed from your handicapping assessment. It also you leaves you guessing as to who will close the best, not who is the best horse. It has not been very fun to bet these races at any condition level. Maybe the best horses are winning but picking them is close to random. Obviously Zayat hears from baffert how bad this stuff is. I also noticed John Sherriffs has not run many and elected to run AP Xcellent on the turf because speed is getting killed on poly routes. Its not good when the top barns decide to forgo Del Mar. I said it before they ran they made a critical mistake installing Poly over the more versatile Cushion Track.
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#5
07-31-2007, 11:34 AM
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Generally speaking, I am a proponent of the artificial surfaces if they improve the safety of the horse. However, the Polytrack races that I have recently watched at DelMar, with the dreadfully slow paces and finishing times (I watched an open one mile NW2X go in 1:41+ on Sunday), are not particularly appealing.
That being said, aren't these complaints being made by the same trainer that recently intimated that he wouldn't know how to keep a horse together without steroids? Consider the source.
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#6
07-31-2007, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
What I also found interesting was Baffert's comments about his 2yo's. At this time of year, sprinting is the game for 2yo's. U want them to be quick out of the gate and fast around the track. Teaching them to route comes later as the distances stretch out. If speed is something that u don't want your horses to have on this track, why even run your 2yo's? It's also not just a 2yo thing. In this country, we run what, about 70% of the races at 6f and under? Speed is very important in America. If u are going to use tracks that make speed irrelevant then I think u are doing the wrong thing.
__________________
The real horses of the year (1986-2020) Manila, Java Gold, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Go for Wand, In Excess, Paseana, Kotashaan, Holy Bull, Cigar, Alphabet Soup, Formal Gold, Skip Away, Artax, Tiznow, Point Given, Azeri, Candy Ride, Smarty Jones, Ghostzapper, Invasor, Curlin, Zenyatta, Zenyatta, Goldikova, Havre de Grace, Wise Dan, Wise Dan, California Chrome, American Pharoah, Arrogate, Gun Runner, Accelerate, Maximum Security, Gamine
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#7
08-01-2007, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
__________________
"Have the clean racing people run any ads explaining that giving a horse a Starbucks and a chocolate poppyseed muffin for breakfast would likely result in a ten year suspension for the trainer?" - Dr. Andrew Roberts
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#8
08-01-2007, 11:04 AM
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If the SOSD article is true, then Joe Harper needs to resign.
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#9
08-01-2007, 11:06 AM
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We need to hear from people on the backstretch, riding horses over it - Honu?
__________________
"Have the clean racing people run any ads explaining that giving a horse a Starbucks and a chocolate poppyseed muffin for breakfast would likely result in a ten year suspension for the trainer?" - Dr. Andrew Roberts
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#11
08-01-2007, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Sherriffs in a DRF article yesterday said "I dont want to comment on the track but we are running ap xcellent on the grass as speed is not doing well on the main track".... mind you this would have been one of the favorites in a million dollar race in a few weeks.
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#12
08-06-2007, 10:51 AM
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I was at Del Mar last week, and couldn't believe what that crap looks like up close. It reminded me of the inside of a used vacuum bag.
Anyway, part of the problem when I was there was the quality of racing (Saturday's card was full of low-level claiming races..I could have stayed in MN and watched those at Canterbury). But from what I saw, if you didn't get out of the gate well you were toast. Deep closers had no chance. It was all stalkers and horses coming from just off the pace. Del Mar is gorgeous, but the racing was mediocre while I was there. The polytrack certainly didn't help.
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#13
08-06-2007, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
its the same Del Mar cards as any year. the daily fare is just sorta average for the reasons you mentioned.
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#15
08-01-2007, 08:00 AM
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Zayat leaving, taking 25 horses to Saratoga
Quote:
Quote:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports...s31delmar.html
__________________
"We are buried beneath the weight of information, which is being confused with knowledge; quantity is being confused with abundance and wealth with happiness. We are monkeys with money and guns. " ~ Tom Waits
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#16
08-01-2007, 09:37 AM
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Good for saratoga I guess.....
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#17
10-27-2007, 03:01 PM
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It's funny how many people said that Baffert was just a whiner and just couldn't adjust because he had to actually train horses now. He went to NY and had a lot of success and now has won two BC races and nearly had a third winner on the card with EZ Warrior. Looks like he still knows how to train if u ask me.
__________________
The real horses of the year (1986-2020) Manila, Java Gold, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Go for Wand, In Excess, Paseana, Kotashaan, Holy Bull, Cigar, Alphabet Soup, Formal Gold, Skip Away, Artax, Tiznow, Point Given, Azeri, Candy Ride, Smarty Jones, Ghostzapper, Invasor, Curlin, Zenyatta, Zenyatta, Goldikova, Havre de Grace, Wise Dan, Wise Dan, California Chrome, American Pharoah, Arrogate, Gun Runner, Accelerate, Maximum Security, Gamine
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