Vick's Co-defendant gunna deal

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Do u apply this same thinking to me then because I don't care anything about the dogs fighting? I feel nothing when I watch the dogs die. I love horse racing but I don't feel anything when a horse breaks down and has to be destroyed. Ok, I take that back. I was upset for a few minutes when Go for Wand went down and when Lion Heart was injured. But only for a few minutes. So does this mean that I'm one that would also rape, stab, shoot, or even crush someone's head in with a bat? So far, I've never done any of those things and never had a thought to do them. But I need to know if it's in my future because apparently, if u don't feel anything for dogs or other animals, u can't feel anything for humans. Because animals and humans are one and the same. Right?

I also didn't feel anything when I sprayed the ants that had trailed into my house this afternoon. Yeah, rape surely can't be far behind.

Well,it's real easy to say you don't care,but until you go and watch dogs squealing in pain,then you don't know if you could just sit there as that is going on.Anybody who can just sit there(as dogs squeal from being destroyed) is scum that could kill or rape without guilt.If you've been to these fights,and enjoyed it this way,then you are human garbage(like Vick.)

[King Glorious]

Scuds, I didn't say I enjoyed it. I said I don't feel anything. I've seen dog fighting and I just wasn't bothered by it. That doesn't mean I enjoyed it. It's not something I would look forward to attending on a Saturday night with the guys. I couldn't see myself ever deciding to attend because it doesn't bring me any pleasure. At the same time, it doesn't appal me either. I just find it interesting that from that, u can deduce that I could rape or kill a human being without guilt. The two aren't even remotely close.

Pgardn, I realize that I'm in the minority here and that's ok. I'm not even suggesting that anyone should feel the same way I feel or that it's even normal that I feel the way I do. Perhaps I'm missing something if I'm not turned off by it. But I'm just not. I am the same way with horses. I love the sport. I love watching the horses run and the efforts they put forth. But I can't stand horses. I don't like to even be near them. I remember a friend of mine wanted to actually fight me after a horse we had bet on broke down in the stretch and I was more concerned with who won the race than the horse that broke down. He asked me if I felt bad because the horse that I was betting on died while trying to earn us money. I didn't. Why? I don't know but I just didn't. I understand that most people involved in the sport are actual horse people and love the animals. I can respect that and I do try and be respectful of their feelings when something happens to one, especially one that they were attatched too. But they can never seem to respect that not everyone is like them. They seem to think that since they love animals, everyone should and if u don't, then u are no different than a rapist or a murder. That's what pisses me off. I don't judge them for what they feel but they are quick to judge me. It pisses me off that Scuds, who's never met me in life, can tell me that I am the type of person that could kill or rape a human being simply because I don't have the same feelings as he does about animals.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Scuds, I didn't say I enjoyed it. I said I don't feel anything. I've seen dog fighting and I just wasn't bothered by it. That doesn't mean I enjoyed it. It's not something I would look forward to attending on a Saturday night with the guys. I couldn't see myself ever deciding to attend because it doesn't bring me any pleasure. At the same time, it doesn't appal me either. I just find it interesting that from that, u can deduce that I could rape or kill a human being without guilt. The two aren't even remotely close.

Pgardn, I realize that I'm in the minority here and that's ok. I'm not even suggesting that anyone should feel the same way I feel or that it's even normal that I feel the way I do. Perhaps I'm missing something if I'm not turned off by it. But I'm just not. I am the same way with horses. I love the sport. I love watching the horses run and the efforts they put forth. But I can't stand horses. I don't like to even be near them. I remember a friend of mine wanted to actually fight me after a horse we had bet on broke down in the stretch and I was more concerned with who won the race than the horse that broke down. He asked me if I felt bad because the horse that I was betting on died while trying to earn us money. I didn't. Why? I don't know but I just didn't. I understand that most people involved in the sport are actual horse people and love the animals. I can respect that and I do try and be respectful of their feelings when something happens to one, especially one that they were attatched too. But they can never seem to respect that not everyone is like them. They seem to think that since they love animals, everyone should and if u don't, then u are no different than a rapist or a murder. That's what pisses me off. I don't judge them for what they feel but they are quick to judge me. It pisses me off that Scuds, who's never met me in life, can tell me that I am the type of person that could kill or rape a human being simply because I don't have the same feelings as he does about animals.

It's about being able to see(and especially hear) suffering,and feel "nothing."
Like I said,if you can hear the animals in pain,and feel nothing,then there is no reason why you would feel different about the suffering of a person.Dogs have been bred to be more and more like us(in a lot of ways.) If you don't find their pain to be a problem to you,then I really don't think you would find human pain to be a problem for you either.So,you are scum,and you could kill.Just because you haven't doesn't mean you won't.There is a % of society that is scum.I believe it is about 2-5%.Call it what you want....Scum,Sociopaths,Psychopaths...........Don' t act upset, either.If you don't have a problem with dogfighting,then you're scum.Deal with it.Don't tell us that you aren't a sick person.You are sick.Like you said you feel nothing,and if you think it is normal,then you're incorrect.I understand that it is normal to you to feel that way.Your brain is gunna tell you you're normal.What would you expect it to do?You're in the minority here because you're part of the 2-5 % that are severely f'd up inside.You can see yourself as unique,or just different,but you're a sick person.The 2 types of suffering are very close,and I do not think you only tolerate 1,and not the other.If it doesn't bother you,then I doubt that human suffering bothers you.YOU WILL HAVE BEEN CONDITIONED TO LIE ABOUT YOUR TOLERANCE OF ONE TYPE OF SUFFERING.THAT'S ALL.People lie about it all their lives.I would not expect you to admit you have tolerance of human suffering.You're conditioned to deny that.I don't believe you.

[Samarta]

You know this is quite interesting to me. The fact that someone could watch animals put in a situation for human entertainment fight to the death or worse near death and left to die and feel nothing is beyond me. Now the point is does it make it wrong. Who am I to judge that? What about when people actually go out to the barn or yard or whatever to get dinner? What do they feel when they ring a neck or chop a head off? If anything, they feel they are 5 minutes closer to a full belly. I couldn't do it, but does it make it wrong? Who am I to judge that? On the other hand, you have all the statistics about violent criminals that got their start with animal cruelty and how they end up locked in a cell, because they snapped and took a baseball bat to someone, or assaulted someone and when questioned felt or showed no remorse. Not everyone thinks alike and with this thread, one's personal opinion feeds right into the other person's statistics of what could potentially happen. Now if I see a horse break down, I turn the other way, and the same goes with dog fighting or anything else where an animal is suffering. But if someone is near me and isn't bothered by the sight of it, I don't go claiming to have discovered a potential violent criminal either. Do I hope Vick has played his last down ever and if the indictment is true gets big time punishment? Absolutely!! Do I understand that there may be people out there saying "they were pit bulls, that's what they were bred to do!" Absolutely! I truly see both of your points and as I said, it's pretty interesting.......

[hurricanefrank]

Morality debates aside, let's not lose sight of the fact that all of us are to abide by the rule of law. What Mr Vick is alleged to have done is against the law. If he's guilty then he'll be sentenced pursuant to established guidelines accordingly. And if that happens the NFL will have lost (at least for awhile) one of its most overrated players.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by hurricanefrank

Morality debates aside, let's not lose sight of the fact that all of us are to abide by the rule of law. What Mr Vick is alleged to have done is against the law. If he's guilty then he'll be sentenced pursuant to established guidelines accordingly. And if that happens the NFL will have lost (at least for awhile) one of its most overrated players.

Contrary to what some say, I'd be totally fine with that happened. Only my reasoning would be not because of the morality issue but the stupidity one.

Originally Posted by Samarta

You know this is quite interesting to me. The fact that someone could watch animals put in a situation for human entertainment fight to the death or worse near death and left to die and feel nothing is beyond me. Now the point is does it make it wrong. Who am I to judge that? What about when people actually go out to the barn or yard or whatever to get dinner? What do they feel when they ring a neck or chop a head off? If anything, they feel they are 5 minutes closer to a full belly. I couldn't do it, but does it make it wrong? Who am I to judge that?

I think it comes down to intentions. People who use their own farm animals as food do so to eat. They dont torture the animals. Wringing the neck is a fairly quick, fairly painless way to kill food in the form of a bird. The people want to efficiently and quickly kill the animals so they can get down to butchering. I had to wring the neck of a goose that had been shot by a friend. The goose was flailing around in a rice paddy (he cussed at himself for a bad shot that did not lead to a clean kill). It was not pleasant and I actually completely tore the head and neck off and sent the body of the goose catapulting 50 yards. My friend got mad and said I should not hammer throw the bird (geese are quite large). I had never done it before and just wanted to make sure the bird was not suffering.
I think this is very different than putting animals together knowing they will tear each other apart and suffer... very different. Killing animals for food is not a new invention by humans. Neither is torturing animals for some thrill. But I would argue the torture for thrill is done on a much smaller scale and is clearly not done for survival (eating). Its done for entertainment. Torture for entertainment. Very different.

[Samarta]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I think it comes down to intentions. People who use their own farm animals as food do so to eat. They dont torture the animals. Wringing the neck is a fairly quick, fairly painless way to kill food in the form of a bird. The people want to efficiently and quickly kill the animals so they can get down to butchering. I had to wring the neck of a goose that had been shot by a friend. The goose was flailing around in a rice paddy (he cussed at himself for a bad shot that did not lead to a clean kill). It was not pleasant and I actually completely tore the head and neck off and sent the body of the goose catapulting 50 yards. My friend got mad and said I should not hammer throw the bird (geese are quite large). I had never done it before and just wanted to make sure the bird was not suffering.
I think this is very different than putting animals together knowing they will tear each other apart and suffer... very different. Killing animals for food is not a new invention by humans. Neither is torturing animals for some thrill. But I would argue the torture for thrill is done on a much smaller scale and is clearly not done for survival (eating). Its done for entertainment. Torture for entertainment. Very different.

Oh I agree 100%, I was just saying that it takes a different kind of person to be able to do that....now survival is a whole different ingredient.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Samarta

You know this is quite interesting to me. The fact that someone could watch animals put in a situation for human entertainment fight to the death or worse near death and left to die and feel nothing is beyond me. Now the point is does it make it wrong. Who am I to judge that? What about when people actually go out to the barn or yard or whatever to get dinner? What do they feel when they ring a neck or chop a head off? If anything, they feel they are 5 minutes closer to a full belly. I couldn't do it, but does it make it wrong? Who am I to judge that? On the other hand, you have all the statistics about violent criminals that got their start with animal cruelty and how they end up locked in a cell, because they snapped and took a baseball bat to someone, or assaulted someone and when questioned felt or showed no remorse. Not everyone thinks alike and with this thread, one's personal opinion feeds right into the other person's statistics of what could potentially happen. Now if I see a horse break down, I turn the other way, and the same goes with dog fighting or anything else where an animal is suffering. But if someone is near me and isn't bothered by the sight of it, I don't go claiming to have discovered a potential violent criminal either. Do I hope Vick has played his last down ever and if the indictment is true gets big time punishment? Absolutely!! Do I understand that there may be people out there saying "they were pit bulls, that's what they were bred to do!" Absolutely! I truly see both of your points and as I said, it's pretty interesting.......

Sam,
I agree that this thread is interesting.
The only thing I'll add is that there's a huge difference between killing an animal for food (quickly and without suffering) and watching one die slowly, suffering for entertainment. It's the difference between stopping at KFC for a big bucket of deepfried on the way to the cockfights.
And, for those that put in the effort to get a horse on to the track, all I can tell you is there is incredible care and patience. When one is injured, or worse yet euthanized, there is an emotional loss.
Interesting thread.

[3kings]

I think Vick is a dirt bag and is in the wrong. I don't agree that there is a connection between dog fighting and committing crimes against other individuals. My issue with this topic is the millions of dollars spent to build the case against Vick. I do not condone his actions but I beleive our goverment money can be better spent.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by 3kings

I think Vick is a dirt bag and is in the wrong. I don't agree that there is a connection between dog fighting and committing crimes against other individuals. My issue with this topic is the millions of dollars spent to build the case against Vick. I do not condone his actions but I beleive our goverment money can be better spent.

how does it cost money? cops get paid the same regardless of the case they work on, and da's are on a salary....and there is a connection between dog fighting and other crimes, most notably drugs--it was a drug bust that lead to the finding of the dog fighting ring. one of the initial articles when all this first came out said that most involved in one, are involved in the other.

and don't forget, it was vick who was caught a few months ago at the airport with a bottle with a hiding place--which smelled of marijuana.


and most serial killers start out on animals.

[Supah Brother]

Originally Posted by 3kings

I think Vick is a dirt bag and is in the wrong. I don't agree that there is a connection between dog fighting and committing crimes against other individuals. My issue with this topic is the millions of dollars spent to build the case against Vick. I do not condone his actions but I beleive our goverment money can be better spent.

Vick is a complete dirt bag and should be banned entirely from the NFL. You can tell alot about a man by the way he treats his animals.

http://www.pet-abuse.com/pages/abuse_connection.php

[Samarta]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Sam,
I agree that this thread is interesting.
The only thing I'll add is that there's a huge difference between killing an animal for food (quickly and without suffering) and watching one die slowly, suffering for entertainment. It's the difference between stopping at KFC for a big bucket of deepfried on the way to the cockfights.
And, for those that put in the effort to get a horse on to the track, all I can tell you is there is incredible care and patience. When one is injured, or worse yet euthanized, there is an emotional loss.
Interesting thread.

agree....hell there is emotional loss to the fan, I can't imagine being and owner, trainer, and probably the one that endures the greatest pain, the groom...

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Samarta

agree....hell there is emotional loss to the fan, I can't imagine being and owner, trainer, and probably the one that endures the greatest pain, the groom...

Samarta,
Being a breeder, all I can tell you is the thrill of seeing them stand up for the first time on those wobbly legs. Lots of people along the way become very involved in the horse's development from that point on. Lots... the breakers, the hot walkers,the barn crew...so much goes into a horse before it even gets to its first race. It's painful for everyone.