11.4% takeout at Laurel? - Page 2

Kasept · #21 07-19-2007, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Unless that takeout applies to on track betting only I imagine the customer base they will be trying to appeal to is the off track betting one. I doubt people are showing up in droves to Ellis Park but a lot more people are betting their Pick 4's off track.

Except that a number of off-track units aren't taking the bet due to the fact that they stand to lose money after application of their sub-license signal fees..

philcski · #22 07-19-2007, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

Except that a number of off-track units aren't taking the bet due to the fact that they stand to lose money after application of their sub-license signal fees..

...which is a real shame. What these ADW people don't realize is the $1-2 they would lose on a $100 P4 (4% takeout - ~5-6% signal fee) is MORE than made up for by additional wagering on the card. It's common business practice in retail to have "loss leaders" which is precisely what Ellis is doing here. If you could find a list of outlets that aren't taking the bet I'll write a letter on behalf of horseplayers to them.

SentToStud · #23 07-19-2007, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

...which is a real shame. What these ADW people don't realize is the $1-2 they would lose on a $100 P4 (4% takeout - ~5-6% signal fee) is MORE than made up for by additional wagering on the card. It's common business practice in retail to have "loss leaders" which is precisely what Ellis is doing here. If you could find a list of outlets that aren't taking the bet I'll write a letter on behalf of horseplayers to them.

It is a shame and I'll also write and call those non-participating outlets as well. With 80-90% of total handle off-track I guess for this to really work well they are going to need to amend the signal fee contracts, in effect splitting out the p-4 from other wagers.

philcski · #24 07-19-2007, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SentToStud

It is a shame and I'll also write and call those non-participating outlets as well. With 80-90% of total handle off-track I guess for this to really work well they are going to need to amend the signal fee contracts, in effect splitting out the p-4 from other wagers.

Another wagering pet peeve of mine: you cannot play .10 supers from any facility that offers the wager or .50 pick 5's from Monmouth at NYRA- minimum bet, a buck. Their excuse- "it takes too long" (meanwhile there were 20 open terminals right next to where I was having the discussion

)

10 pnt move up · #25 07-19-2007, 09:08 AM

Seriously, do the OTB's have the power today that they held 5-10 years ago with the internert? I have not been to an OTB in several years. Most of the tracks are going to their own ADW system anyways.

deltagulf · #26 07-19-2007, 09:25 AM

yea the 11 % is good. a short 10 days, will they do it on the other meet.
going against toga and del mar in august is tuff.

parsixfarms · #27 07-19-2007, 09:42 AM

NYRA is taking the Ellis pic-4, so everyone heading to Saratoga this summer ought to make a point to invest at least a few dollars into that pool.

SentToStud · #28 07-19-2007, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Seriously, do the OTB's have the power today that they held 5-10 years ago with the internert? I have not been to an OTB in several years. Most of the tracks are going to their own ADW system anyways.

Put it another way, do the racetracks have less power than they did 5-10 years ago? Interstate wagering and ADW wagering now account for 80%+ of handle at 90%+ of meets (SoCal and Belmont handle more ontrack, 30-40%). From what I read, ADW wagering is the sole growth segment of the three. When Keeneland tried a couple years ago to lower takeout on exotics, a number of Mid-Atlantic tracks dropped their signal citing they would lose handle on their product to Keeneland's more attractive pools. Keeneland backed down. The biggest problem is that the 'signal fee' contracts between host tracks and those importing the signal (Interstate/ADW) generally provide for the host track keeping only 20-25% of total takeout vs 75-80% to those not actually running the races. Here's an example.... On a typical Saturday afternoon at Palm Beach Kennel Club they handle about $200,000 on-track for their own races. They also handle over $400,000 on Gulfstream. NYRA and Santa Anita combined. Their expenses on that T-bred handle are modest and yet they keep 75% of the takeout, making it more profitable than their live handle on their own product. It does not make sense, at least to me. The problem dates back to when simulcasting started in the '80's and people managing racetracks made the incorrect assumption that interstate wagering would be "found" or extra handle and their own on track handle would not be cannibalized. They could not have been more wrong.

fpsoxfan · #29 07-19-2007, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paisjpq

you will have to pardon those of us that don't give a crap...

Sniff...sniff....LicK......Lick...Good, the A-Hole is clean.

Hickory Hill Hoff · #30 07-19-2007, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fpsoxfan

Sniff...sniff....LicK......Lick...Good, the A-Hole is clean.

Don't mess with the colon...your life could depend on it!

I know first hand.

fpsoxfan · #31 07-19-2007, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Don't mess with the colon...your life could depend on it!

I know first hand.

It was my impression of an anal douchebag. Do you know anyone like that?

fpsoxfan · #32 07-19-2007, 04:35 PM

In addition to my boring "sabbatical", I'm also trying to dry out from the wild reunion week so I'm a little "touchy." You know the desire to rip someone's throat out at the drop of a hat. Ever felt that way before?

Hickory Hill Hoff · #33 07-19-2007, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fpsoxfan

In addition to my boring "sabbatical", I'm also trying to dry out from the wild reunion week so I'm a little "touchy." You know the desire to rip someone's throat out at the drop of a hat. Ever felt that way before?

"Dry out"

It was a good weekend, we're not as young as we use to be!

and to answer your next question...YES, but I doubt they will show thier face!

Hickory Hill Hoff · #34 07-19-2007, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fpsoxfan

It was my impression of an anal douchebag. Do you know anyone like that?

I'll chime in!

fpsoxfan · #35 07-19-2007, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

I'll chime in!

Things are cool. I'm looking forward to Opening Day Festivities. I haven't heard from the gang on E-Street in awhile. Got some great pictures of the reunion. I'm getting giddy, might have to tip a few back tomorrow.

estreetposse · #36 07-20-2007, 10:19 PM

I'm here...stick to the topic damn it

Can I bet the Laurel card with COTB phone account?

(Very thirsty...will have lots o' beer Saturday)

fpsoxfan · #37 07-21-2007, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estreetposse

I'm here...stick to the topic damn it

Can I bet the Laurel card with COTB phone account?

(Very thirsty...will have lots o' beer Saturday)

What..are you buying a purse on Saturday or are you hosting the party instead of the wife? I don't use brisnet, youbet, or any of those. I use
"betwithYac".

Hickory Hill Hoff · #38 07-21-2007, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fpsoxfan

What..are you buying a purse on Saturday or are you hosting the party instead of the wife? I don't use brisnet, youbet, or any of those. I use
"betwithYac".

In between "smokes", drives the old guys crazy!

Hickory Hill Hoff · #39 07-21-2007, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estreetposse

I'm here...stick to the topic damn it

Can I bet the Laurel card with COTB phone account?

(Very thirsty...will have lots o' beer Saturday)

Anyday is a good day for lots o' "cold ones"!

phystech · #40 07-22-2007, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltagulf

yea the 11 % is good. a short 10 days, will they do it on the other meet.
going against toga and del mar in august is tuff.

Raffetto isn't smart enough to do anything beyond the current 10 day meet. He's simply doing a bait and switch deal whereby he's hoping most bettors will forget the 10% reduction is on for 10 days and they'll play Laurel's fall meet beyond the 10 days because they still think the 10% reduction is still in play.

If Laurel loses a lot of play because simulcast outlets won't take the signal, what is the net gain? IMO, there is none - only a big loss. And this comes on the heels of the recent $2k across the board purse cuts. So, combine lower take with a lower handle (due to loss of simulcast money) and I can't figure out how that puts more $$'s into the purse fund. I hope I'm wrong - I pray I'm wrong because MD racing can't continue to take the hits we've taken the last few years.

Then again, maybe this is a genius plan by Raffetto. Perhaps by doing this he envisions the loss of simulcast revenue and loss of exposure via simo signal so that instead of bringing more exposure to MD racing, he decreases exposure by loss of signal. This leads to more lost revenue, which allows the facilities to fall into greater disrepair, which drives away more customers, which reduces handle...... and all just in time for the next MD legislative session in Jan where the slots issue will be re-visited.