Presque Isle Downs - Nice Purses

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by scanman

A fair question.

The immediate benefit to "bettors" is that it is one more track to choose from.
Gambling is relative. There is "value" in every race, if "the bettor" is astute enough to find the value. Considering the variables of the Tapeta surface and horses shipping in from all over the northeast, midwest, kentucky and Canada, it should make selecting a winner pretty challenging. But more than that, it should make for some very interesting racing.

"Bettors" never had it so good. With similcasting and internet wagering, there are hundreds of races for a "bettor" to choose from each day. If you find that Presque Isle Downs doesn't provide the types of races that you like to bet, then move on to a track that you find more adventageous. But at least you will have one more option to choose from and that is definitely a good thing.

I don't need another track to fire at. I'm not the type of wagerer who sits in a simulcast seat flipping my book to the next race going off in two minutes.

The problem for me is that these slot tracks dilute good racing elsewhere at the direct expense of the bettors. Nobody in their right mind will play a p-3 or p-4 at a Pennsylvania track that takes 25-30% of the pool in take out while offering meager pools.

I have no problem with people racing where they can earn the most money. But their gain is the bettors' loss. There's no doubt about that.

[scanman]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

The problem for me is that these slot tracks dilute good racing elsewhere at the direct expense of the bettors.

Give us an example.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by scanman

Give us an example.

lol.

How about Delaware's 7th on Monday? Five horses N2X/$32k optional. WPS Pool $64,000. P-3 pool $7,000.

How about the 5th the day before. Six horses. N3x/$50k. P-3 pool was $9,000 but hey that was DelCap day!

Or, the 7th race the day before that with 5 betting interests. Or the 7th on 7/10.

Or, my favorite, the 8th race on the 10th... n3x/$50k. Four horses. The WPS pool was $42,000. The race after that was a $10,000 Maiden Claimer. The WPS pool was 25% higher.

[scanman]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

lol.

How about Delaware's 7th on Monday? Five horses N2X/$32k optional. WPS Pool $64,000. P-3 pool $7,000.

How about the 5th the day before. Six horses. N3x/$50k. P-3 pool was $9,000 but hey that was DelCap day!

Or, the 7th race the day before that with 5 betting interests. Or the 7th on 7/10.

Or, my favorite, the 8th race on the 10th... n3x/$50k. Four horses. The WPS pool was $42,000. The race after that was a $10,000 Maiden Claimer. The WPS pool was 25% higher.

Okay, not great races and you have a gripe with Delaware. Personally, I think it is one of the gems of the northeast and it would have been tragic if it closed.

Back to your point, to illustrate your thesis - Delaware Park is closed. Where would these horses race?

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by scanman

Okay, not great races and you have a gripe with Delaware. Personally, I think it is one of the gems of the northeast and it would have been tragic if it closed.

Back to your point, to illustrate your thesis - Delaware Park is closed. Where would these horses race?

"Not great races" is a bit generous. There's several of those every week there.

The good ones would run in NY or NJ or KY or Chicago. The ones that don't belong at that level would drop and ship anywhere.

Delaware is a nice place. So was AkSarBen. So was Rockingham. So was Washington Park. So was Atlantic City. Especially so was Hialeah. When Hialeah went bust, they had the highest take out rates in the nation.

Like I said before, if I made a living directly from training or owning horses, I would have a far different perspective. To me, the only things that matter are quality, field size, pool size and takeout. And since slot machines artificially inflate purses at racino tracks at the expense of the things that matter to me, I'm against them.

[scanman]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Delaware is a nice place. So was AkSarBen. So was Rockingham. So was Washington Park. So was Atlantic City. Especially so was Hialeah. When Hialeah went bust, they had the highest take out rates in the nation.

I wouldn't put AkSarBen and Atlantic City in the same category as Delaware. If they closed all the mid-level tracks in the northeast, Delaware would be the one they should keep. As for Hialeah, tragic. It was a matter of 3 rats fighting over a one piece of cheese and the two bigger rats won. Never made it to Washington Park or Rockhampton.

Originally Posted by SentToStud

"Not great races" is a bit generous. There's several of those every week there.

Unfortunate, but true.

Originally Posted by SentToStud

The good ones would run in NY or NJ or KY or Chicago. The ones that don't belong at that level would drop and ship anywhere.

Okay, staying with your thesis - let's close all of the tracks (just in the northeast) that are slots (or will be) supported. Now closed are Mountaineer, Charles Town, Penn National, Philadelphia Park, Finger Lakes, Fort Erie, Woodbine, Indiana Downs and Hoosier Park.

Now we're talking about a lot of horses. Where do you send them?

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by scanman

I wouldn't put AkSarBen and Atlantic City in the same category as Delaware. If they closed all the mid-level tracks in the northeast, Delaware would be the one they should keep. As for Hialeah, tragic. It was a matter of 3 rats fighting over a one piece of cheese and the two bigger rats won. Never made it to Washington Park or Rockhampton.


Unfortunate, but true.


Okay, staying with your thesis - let's close all of the tracks (just in the northeast) that are slots (or will be) supported. Now closed are Mountaineer, Charles Town, Penn National, Philadelphia Park, Finger Lakes, Fort Erie, Woodbine, Indiana Downs and Hoosier Park.

Now we're talking about a lot of horses. Where do you send them?

Hey, I loved Atlantic City. Saw Manilla win the UN there in the mid 80's.

The 'decent' horses from those tracks would run anywhere else. As for the nickel clamers, I don't care, really. A nickel claimer today was a $2000 claimer 15 years ago. I'm sure they're important to the people who own and train them but serious players would much rather see fewer races with fuller fields and better horses. They could keep those tracks open for what they are. Some would make it, others wouldn't. What would the peolple displaced do? I don't know. They'd do whatever the people displaced out of the auto or steel industries did, I expect. The other dynamic that keeps bottom tier tracks alive is the insane simulcasting revenue sharing arrangements that exist. "Live handle" has very, very little to do with how well most race tracks financially perform. From a serious wagerer's view, the world might well be better without Philly Park, Charlestown or any other slot track that cannibalizes field size, quality and pool size at better race tracks.