Drug Free Racing

[Honu]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

I agree with Geeker.

Too often the only reason put drugs in their horses is because everyone else is doing it and they don't want to lose an advantage. How do thousands of horses in Europe race without a problem with no lasix??? Yet every first time maiden in America immediately begins with lasix? I doubt every single maiden here is truly a bleeder. They just don't want to lose that 2 or 3 length advantage.

Having 1 or 2 races a day for clean horses is a great idea.

How do you know its not a problem ? Did you know that they train on Lasix across the pond ? I have been around too many horses from Europe with damaged lungs from bleeding in races , you think its humane to let the horses basically drown in their own blood ?
If running without Lasix is so good for the horses then how come when the Euro horses come over for the Breeders Cup and other big races they run on Lasix ?

[geeker2]

Does that mean you would support the status quo for racing ? The public has just heard of snake venom..what else is being used that the general public doesn't know about? Isn't Lasix a performance enhancing drug? Somemhow this industry has to come to grips with this problem because it isn't just going to disappear.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by geeker2

Does that mean you would support the status quo for racing ? The public has just heard of snake venom..what else is being used that the general public doesn't know about? Isn't Lasix a performance enhancing drug? Somemhow this industry has to come to grips with this problem because it isn't just going to disappear.

There is always someone that will try to beat the rules in any venture where money is on the line. Snake Venom is not legal to use just very hard to detect. So a horse could very well be treated with snake venom and still pass the test in your "drug free" race.

"Drugfree" racing is no more possible than drug free football or baseball. The fact that the industry has done a pitiful job in legislating and policing the issue should be the issue. For without the correct rules and stringent testing any race that is called "drugfree" would be a farce.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by geeker2

Does that mean you would support the status quo for racing ? The public has just heard of snake venom..what else is being used that the general public doesn't know about? Isn't Lasix a performance enhancing drug? Somemhow this industry has to come to grips with this problem because it isn't just going to disappear.

Lasix is given to reduce EIPE , so I guess not having the horse bleed while being asked for its life is performance enhancing , I personally think its health enhancing for the horse.
There is so much stuff that was used before people had access to information that it would blow your mind and this goes back to the days of limited testing , so if you think people can get away with stuff now how do you think it was back then.
I dont agree with what trainers do as far as injecting horses throats with mepevicane before a race because they have breathing problems ( alltho it does seem more humane than slitting their throats for a myectomy ) and I dont agree with blocking horses legs so they cant feel anything , but to be honest in my 13 years as a jockey I rode quit a few horses that were blocked and never had any breakdown including horses that were heal nerved.
But back to the point , everyone always brings up the fact that in Europe they dont use race day meds , but no one ever mentions that they do train on them , they just have to make sure they are clear by the time they run.
Have you ever seen a horse gush blood from its nostrils? Not a very pretty sight to see a horse in that much distress when it can be prevented by giving them a simple dieuretic.

[scanman]

I was at a track in Groenedaal, Belgium. A horse came back to the paddock after a race and had blood flowing from his nostrils like it was water out of a faucet. Definitely not a pretty sight.

Another case, I've been watching a lot of "jump" replays from a New Zealand website and one particular horse caught my attention. He had a number of wins and looks to be a very promising hurdler. After one race where he finished second, he was found to be a "bleeder" and was banned from racing for 3 months. How would you like to be an owner of a horse that could not run because he bled, when the use of Lasix could overcome this problem and allow the horse to continue to compete.

Lasix and bute have positive uses, provided they are administered properly.

[TheSpyder]

I'm for all drugs in racing...for the horse player. I figure it will help my odds of picking a winner and getting a good price.

Besides, a bourbon now and then helps me, really calms me down, and I did much better with it Wednesday on it watching Sumwonlovesme.

Spyder (B)

on Bourbon

[ELA]

I have spoken out for a complete overhaul of the rules, regulations, etc. that govern this sport and industry. I am 100% for uniform and universal medication rules and the same for penalties, fines and suspensions.

However, with that being said, you will never achieve absolute -- even if you model after countries and jurisdictions that have zero tolerance. Reason being, as said, there will always be someone who is trying to gain the competitive edge. It might be on "this side" of the line, but eventually, it's always going to graduate and progress to the "illegal" side of the line. Why? It's simple. Money! Purse money, gambling, per diem, barn stake, and so on -- everywhere . . . Money.

Great concept. Not practical or feasible, but great concept. A so called drug free race does not exist today. Card the race at Fantasy Land Downs. There are numerous drugs floating around today thay the governing bodies cannot test for, so there goes your drug free race.

Personally, I think much of what we've seen, read about, formed committee's on, discussed, etc -- is truly not the real issue. There is no leadership in addressing and dealing with this problem. States won't work together. The thoroughbred industry needs to look no further than NJ and Toronto in order to see the progress that has been made in "catching" the criminals. How to "catch" them is one thing. Punishing them is something completely different, and NJ hasn't done such a great job on this front.

There are labs, testing facilities, tests, etc. that are much more progressive than what we know about in our industry. Of course it becomes a question of money, however, money can be a very small hurdle when there is leadership. I've attended enough of these committee and industry meetings to see that the sport and industry needs to "lead, follow or get out of the way"

Eric

[The Indomitable DrugS]

There is drug-free professional wrestling!

After all, I was watching Court TV the other day (God only knows why!) and someone on there claimed the WWF uses drug tests that are tougher than olympic athletes are subjected to.

I think they said that after they read off a list of 100 wrestlers who died young or fairly young.

I know a bodybuilder who's really fond of using horse drugs like Winstrol, Equipoise, and Clembuteral. He's almost always in a sour mood.

I've rarely ever been more miserable than I was the day and a half after I took lasix.

All goofiness aside, it would be fantastic to see horses run on just hay, oats, and water. It could also very possibly have a positive impact on the breed. As the horses who need medication to produce their good form would possibly be weeded out of the pedigree.

But like ELA said, that's all a fantasy.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by Honu

How do you know its not a problem ? Did you know that they train on Lasix across the pond ? I have been around too many horses from Europe with damaged lungs from bleeding in races , you think its humane to let the horses basically drown in their own blood ?
If running without Lasix is so good for the horses then how come when the Euro horses come over for the Breeders Cup and other big races they run on Lasix ?

In Australia, you can't race as a bleeder. No lasix allowed. You get about two chances to bleed, and then you are gone.

This takes care of a lot of problems. Just ban the horses from racing if they bleed.

No racing

No wins

No stud career

No worries

[Sightseek]

This is the follow-up of the recent published and questioned salix overages from the Keeneland meet. Oops, they tossed some of the split samples

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=39776

[geeker2]

A couple of timely document in the San Diego paper:



http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniont...z1s16bute.html


http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniont...16delmeds.html

[parsixfarms]

Did anyone else think that the manner in which Randy Moss addressed the Biancone situation (merely assuring the audience that Biancone believes that he did nothing wrong and that he "sleeps well at night") yesterday on ESPN's coverage of the Delaware Handicap was nothing short of pathetic?

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Did anyone else think that the manner in which Randy Moss addressed the Biancone situation (merely assuring the audience that Biancone believes that he did nothing wrong and that he "sleeps well at night") yesterday on ESPN's coverage of the Delaware Handicap was nothing short of pathetic?

Very disappointing.. Moss had a chance to show some leadership on the subject - as Andy Beyers has! - We need others in the Media to get on board and have the guts to speakout ...Kudos to Andy !!

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by geeker2

Very disappointing.. Moss had a chance to show some leadership on the subject - as Andy Beyers has! - We need others in the Media to get on board and have the guts to speakout ...Kudos to Andy !!

Actually, the media should start calling high-profile owners out on why they employ these people.

Jeanine Edwards interviews the owner of Asi Siempre and doesn't ask him a single question about the Biancone situation. Why do Jess Jackson and Satish Sanan, those advocates of cleaning up racing, employ Asmussen? And for that matter, why has Will Farish started to employ Asmussen to train some of his horses? When "industry leaders" are not ashamed of their associations with these shady characters, it tells me that they are not really serious about cleaning up the game. It's simply another case of "do as I say, not as I do."

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Though ESPN broadcasts racing sporadically throughout the year anyway -- when its broadcast is not interrupted by an over-run preceding game, of course -- do you think that Moss would have addressed the situation differently if ESPN did not have the Breeders' Cup this year?

No, I think he just took a dive on the issue. ESPN's relationship with the NFL and MLB has not stopped its reporters, etc., in those arenas from frequent comment on steroids/off-the-field legal problems.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Scurlogue Champ

In Australia, you can't race as a bleeder. No lasix allowed. You get about two chances to bleed, and then you are gone.

This takes care of a lot of problems. Just ban the horses from racing if they bleed.

No racing

No wins

No stud career

No worries

wonder if that policy helps the exportation of horse meat business

But the export of horsemeat from Australia has been going on since the 1970s, though only in a small way back then. The first major export was 7777 tonnes in 1981. The biggest ever year was 1986 when 9327 tonnes were shipped out, representing the slaughter of well over 30,000 horses. After that, although it fluctuated, there was a steady decline to 6000 tonnes in 1999, then it halved again to some 3000 tonnes in 2003, representing about 10,000 horses. But the price has steadily risen, due at least in part to the mad cow disease scares causing people to turn away from beef. The approximate export value per kilogram in 2004 was $3.30 compared with $2.70 in 1999.[2] This translates to a great deal more on the dinner table, over US$50/kg according to some sources.[3]

It is not we Australians who are eating our horses because it is illegal to eat horsemeat here. It is diners mainly in Europe who are indulging, plus some Japanese. The two abattoirs in Australia licensed to export horsemeat are in fact Belgian-owned. They are at Peterborough in South Australia (Metro Velda Pty Ltd) and Caboolture abattoir in Queensland (Meramist Pty Ltd).

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

wonder if that policy helps the exportation of horse meat business

But the export of horsemeat from Australia has been going on since the 1970s, though only in a small way back then. The first major export was 7777 tonnes in 1981. The biggest ever year was 1986 when 9327 tonnes were shipped out, representing the slaughter of well over 30,000 horses. After that, although it fluctuated, there was a steady decline to 6000 tonnes in 1999, then it halved again to some 3000 tonnes in 2003, representing about 10,000 horses. But the price has steadily risen, due at least in part to the mad cow disease scares causing people to turn away from beef. The approximate export value per kilogram in 2004 was $3.30 compared with $2.70 in 1999.[2] This translates to a great deal more on the dinner table, over US$50/kg according to some sources.[3]

It is not we Australians who are eating our horses because it is illegal to eat horsemeat here. It is diners mainly in Europe who are indulging, plus some Japanese. The two abattoirs in Australia licensed to export horsemeat are in fact Belgian-owned. They are at Peterborough in South Australia (Metro Velda Pty Ltd) and Caboolture abattoir in Queensland (Meramist Pty Ltd).

I reckon there should be more of a "cull" in all jurisdictions. There is nothing wrong with thinning out the herd in my opinion.

Not a popular opinion to have though.

[Left Bank]

Why can't America do this?
http://www.theage.com.au/news/horse-...560108629.html