Who is an owner? What's your story?

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Storm Cadet

With West Point, I found them very professional and up front with their business plan and practices. They were open to new clients and spent a lot of time explaining the expenses and mark ups etc. They didn't with hold any race track info, in fact encourages going on the backstretch and meet with trainers and staff. You got along with winning photos, a cd or video of each win. With WPTB...what you see is what you get. The are like a Full service Wall Street financial company with PR, sales, customer relations people all assembled to help you. They have Buzz Chance as their yearling go to guy! Yes they are expensive...but they advertise themselves as the top outfit.

Now with the other outfits, they bill themselves as the Charles Swab (low cost-minimal expenses) partnership. They bill themselves as no owner expenses except minimal. They portray themselves that way on their web site as well as in person. But what you don't see is what kills ya. I'd rather be told UP FRONT PRIOR to joining a partnership than to be in one and then find out all their hidden little secrets of how they make their management profit. We won't go into all their ways here. PM me if you'd like a lesson in what questions to ask and in how to spot the wolves in sheeps clothing so you don't get fleeced like many others.

Remember a rule, these people start their own for profit horse stables to make money-YOUR MONEY. Win or lose...they make MONEY-YOUR MONEY! Their business models are set up so THEY are protected and the only losses are the investors.

If anyone is seriously thinking about joining a partnership do two things: Read Cot Cambells book "Lightening in a Jar". It is the best out there and is the gold standard IMO on things to know Prior to joining any outfit. Two, get EVERYTHING in writing and ask questions.

Look to join the next opening of DT's next offering! Their business plan is the best for new owners looking to get into the best game there is and meet great people and have some fun...win or lose!

At the end of the year, what would you estimate it cost you for WPTB?

[Storm Cadet]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

At the end of the year, what would you estimate it cost you for WPTB?

I'm not sure...they are very expensive right now. When I joined them, they would look for 2 yo's in the 50-75 G range and mark them up to 100G. Now they purchase horses for say $100-300 grand and sells shares based on a value of $300-500G. On top of that they started charging monthly management fees for each horse. I left them in 2004. They started this upgraded business profile that same year.

One easy way of finding out the purchase price is to look online at the OBS/Keeneland/SAR sales sites. They list the purchase price (MOST of the times it's accurate...but they play games there too!). Then see what WPTB is selling the shares for!

They have to charge such high markups and fees because of national TV advertising TVG, and other additional national sales staff and PR people, web page management etc. But I always find them to be great guys, honest and very caring to their owner/investors.

[phystech]

Originally Posted by Storm Cadet

They have to charge such high markups and fees because of national TV advertising TVG, and other additional national sales staff and PR people, web page management etc. But I always find them to be great guys, honest and very caring to their owner/investors.

I wonder how they get around SEC regulations regarding their offerings?

Given they aren't just marketing something to a few of their closest friends, in essence, they are offering an investment to the whole world via the web, print and TV. SEC regs have to come into play there somewhere.

I thought about going global a few years ago and actually printed up about 10,000 fliers which I distributed at Pimlico on Black Eyed Susan Day and Preakness Day. Other than the fact that out of those 10,000 distributed, I got three emails and 5 hits on a web page I had set up, I backed off because my fears were raised about SEC intervention once I found out that the first partnership I was in had been investigated and fined by the AZ SEC.

Given that so many of the partnerships out there charge a management fee, I guess I was a real idiot - I never charged my partners a dime in management fees. I bought my shares in each horse just like everyone else did and made my money off my share of ownership, just like the rest did. We all made the same or lost the same, based on percentage of ownership.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by phystech

I wonder how they get around SEC regulations regarding their offerings?

Given they aren't just marketing something to a few of their closest friends, in essence, they are offering an investment to the whole world via the web, print and TV. SEC regs have to come into play there somewhere.

I thought about going global a few years ago and actually printed up about 10,000 fliers which I distributed at Pimlico on Black Eyed Susan Day and Preakness Day. Other than the fact that out of those 10,000 distributed, I got three emails and 5 hits on a web page I had set up, I backed off because my fears were raised about SEC intervention once I found out that the first partnership I was in had been investigated and fined by the AZ SEC.

Given that so many of the partnerships out there charge a management fee, I guess I was a real idiot - I never charged my partners a dime in management fees. I bought my shares in each horse just like everyone else did and made my money off my share of ownership, just like the rest did. We all made the same or lost the same, based on percentage of ownership.

Great question -- and, I had often wondered about the "securities" aspect of this. Being in the financial services industry, I am more than well aware of the NASD, SEC, securites, etc. element that this entire environment seems to either encroach or come very close to.

One person told me that technically they aren't "soliciting" and that's how they avoid registering, falling under securites guidelines, etc. I am not sure if that's true or if that's the case here. However, often there is disclaimer language that the advertisement, commercial, etc. is not a solicitation. Again, I don't know if that avoids any securites regulation or guidelines.

Another partnership company CEO told me that he cannot solicit people and that people must put something in writing saying they are requesting information and are interested, etc. That was quite some time ago so I don't know if that standard still exists.

Usually, when it comes to securities offerings and registrations, there are several benchmarks that must be met -- or avoided if you look at this from the opposite perspective, LOL.

Eric

[philcski]

Actually most of them put the standard securities disclaimer language ("this is not an offer to sell securities, past performance does not indicate future success, financial instruments run the risk of significant loss", etc.) into their advertisements and offerings.

[Swap Fliparoo]

Originally Posted by Storm Cadet

They have to charge such high markups and fees because of national TV advertising TVG, and other additional national sales staff and PR people, web page management etc. But I always find them to be great guys, honest and very caring to their owner/investors.

I know a guy who sells shares for West Point, he said he's never selling to the husband, but to the wife. The guy walks in already knowing what he wants to buy... the only one you have to sway is the woman behind the dollars!