Biggio "3000"!!!

[Buffymommy]

Congrats to both guys! Nice accomplishment for both of them!

[Cannon Shell]

There is no question that Biggio is a HOF player. He is one of the 10 best 2nd baseman of all time and arguably could be listed as high as #7.

Obviously the top 6 who are in the HOF are:
1. Rogers Hornsby
2. Nap Lajoie
3. Joe Morgan
4. Eddie Collins
5. Jackie Robinson
6. Charlie Gehinger

Then you have a group that includes Rod Carew, Frankie Frisch and Ryne Sandberg. He fits nicely with these guys and you could easily say that he was a better all around player than any of them especially in light of him playing 4 years at Catcher which surely suppressed his numbers a bit and playing so many of his peak years in the Astrodome which undoubtedly lowered his offensive numbers. He has not been a great player for the last few years but even so his averages are still very comparable and better in some cases than Sandberg and Paul Molitor, both recent inductees. For the record he has 5 silver Slugger awards and 7 all star appearances whereas Molitor had 4 SS awards and 7 all star appearances. The only HOF 2nd baseman with more HR's is Hornsby, He has more RBI's than Sandberg, Carew, Morgan and Robinson. He slg% is higher than Morgan, FRisch, Carew, and Collins. He has more runs than any of them. He has the 6th most 2b's in the history of MLB. He also leads the MLB in history in HBP. He stole more bases than all the other HOF 2nd baseman except for Morgan, Collins and Frisch and he is only 5 behind him. The only HOF 2nd basemen with more hits are Lajoie, Collins and Carew who he should catch this season.

Need more?

[Storm Cadet]

Damn Cannon I am IMPRESSED!!!

After reading your posts recently on NBA draft, MLB, NFL I am calling ESPN. You gotta go heads up against Howie Schwab (The Swabbie)...you'd kick his ass!!! You up for it?

I know this guy personally as he was one of our student press SID's while he attended college. Gave him plenty of scoops...not ice cream in case you looked at his waistline. We've kept in touch for years...here's a photo of him last year running onto our court for opening night madness as announcer!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Storm Cadet

Damn Cannon I am IMPRESSED!!!

After reading your posts recently on NBA draft, MLB, NFL I am calling ESPN. You gotta go heads up against Howie Schwab (The Swabbie)...you'd kick his ass!!! You up for it?

I know this guy personally as he was one of our student press SID's while he attended college. Gave him plenty of scoops...not ice cream in case you looked at his waistline. We've kept in touch for years...here's a photo of him last year running onto our court for opening night madness as announcer!

I miss Stump the Schwab

[Storm Cadet]

espn classic 6PM each nite

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Storm Cadet

espn classic 6PM each nite

THANKS!

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There is no question that Biggio is a HOF player. He is one of the 10 best 2nd baseman of all time and arguably could be listed as high as #7.

Obviously the top 6 who are in the HOF are:
1. Rogers Hornsby
2. Nap Lajoie
3. Joe Morgan
4. Eddie Collins
5. Jackie Robinson
6. Charlie Gehinger

Then you have a group that includes Rod Carew, Frankie Frisch and Ryne Sandberg. He fits nicely with these guys and you could easily say that he was a better all around player than any of them especially in light of him playing 4 years at Catcher which surely suppressed his numbers a bit and playing so many of his peak years in the Astrodome which undoubtedly lowered his offensive numbers. He has not been a great player for the last few years but even so his averages are still very comparable and better in some cases than Sandberg and Paul Molitor, both recent inductees. For the record he has 5 silver Slugger awards and 7 all star appearances whereas Molitor had 4 SS awards and 7 all star appearances. The only HOF 2nd baseman with more HR's is Hornsby, He has more RBI's than Sandberg, Carew, Morgan and Robinson. He slg% is higher than Morgan, FRisch, Carew, and Collins. He has more runs than any of them. He has the 6th most 2b's in the history of MLB. He also leads the MLB in history in HBP. He stole more bases than all the other HOF 2nd baseman except for Morgan, Collins and Frisch and he is only 5 behind him. The only HOF 2nd basemen with more hits are Lajoie, Collins and Carew who he should catch this season.

Need more?

Yea,I sure do need more.If he wasn't chalk white,there is no way you people are putting this guy in.These are almost all time-based accomplishments.He has more "this and that" than others cuz he played a long time. Now I say you need to put more deserving talented players in(not some guy who is just a good clean conservative who played for Houston forever.)


http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/historical/...Locator=garvey

There are atleast 7 years where this guy hit over .300,and 6 out of 7 years he had over 200 hits.BIGGIO ISN'T GUNNA EVER DO THAT,AND IT'S BECAUSE HE IS NOT AS GOOD.I actually have nothing against Biggio as a person,but I don't think he should go in if this guy ain't going in first.PERIOD.

http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_...987&statType=1

Go right ahead and let your b.s. flow,but this guy is not as good a player as Garvey was.It's a pathetic popularity contest.He is gunna die with a ring.Biggio isn't ever gunna get one(and he had his chance,and didn't get it done.)So stick that where it don't shine.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Yea,I sure do need more.If he wasn't chalk white,there is no way you people are putting this guy in.These are almost all time-based accomplishments.He has more "this and that" than others cuz he played a long time. Now I say you need to put more deserving talented players in(not some guy who is just a good clean conservative who played for Houston forever.)


http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/historical/...Locator=garvey

There are atleast 7 years where this guy hit over .300,and 6 out of 7 years he had over 200 hits.BIGGIO ISN'T GUNNA EVER DO THAT,AND IT'S BECAUSE HE IS NOT AS GOOD.I actually have nothing against Biggio as a person,but I don't think he should go in if this guy ain't going in first.PERIOD.

http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_...987&statType=1

Go right ahead and let your b.s. flow,but this guy is not as good a player as Garvey was.It's a pathetic popularity contest.He is gunna die with a ring.Biggio isn't ever gunna get one(and he had his chance,and didn't get it done.)So stick that where it don't shine.

Garvey again? What is the obsession with Garvey? Buckner was a better player and noone is calling for him to make the Hall.

The funny thing about your argument (?)/rant is that Biggio played one more year than Garvey yet has scored 700 more runs! hit 200 more doubles, 15 MORE HR's!!!, has 600 more walks, 300+ more stolen bases, has a 30 point advantage in OBP! Want more...Biggio is the alltime NL leader with leadoff HR's with 50, 2nd all time to Rickey, he is 25th on the alltime list of extrabase hits, is on his way to his 14th season with 30 or more doubles which is a alltime record...

Biggio is so much more deserving than Garvey it is a joke. He will be getting a plaque, Garvey will need to buy a ticket to get in

[SCUDSBROTHER]

GARVEY has almost 2 thousand less at bats,but somehow BIGGIO is not even that close in RBI TOTAL. That's what I am talkin' bout here.Garvey took care of business.

GARVEY'S RBI=1308
VERSUS BIGGIO'S 1152...keep getting another 700-800 at bats and maybe you equal the amount of runs this man knocked in.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

GARVEY has almost 2 thousand less at bats,but somehow BIGGIO is not even that close in RBI TOTAL. That's what I am talkin' bout here.Garvey took care of business.

GARVEY'S RBI=1308
VERSUS BIGGIO'S 1152...keep getting another 700-800 at bats and maybe you equal the amount of runs this man knocked in.

Biggio batted leadoff while Garvey batted 3rd to 5th. The fact that Garvey only has 150 more RBI's while playing a corner infield position on good teams is actually another point in Biggios favor. You act like Garvey did not have a long career. He played for a long time and did not really have great numbers for a 1st baseman. You could make a strong case for him being the 40th best 1st baseman of all time while Biggio is clearly a top 10 at his position, while also spending time at Catcher which noone is baseball history ever has done.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Biggio batted leadoff while Garvey batted 3rd to 5th. The fact that Garvey only has 150 more RBI's while playing a corner infield position on good teams is actually another point in Biggios favor. You act like Garvey did not have a long career. He played for a long time and did not really have great numbers for a 1st baseman. You could make a strong case for him being the 40th best 1st baseman of all time while Biggio is clearly a top 10 at his position, while also spending time at Catcher which noone is baseball history ever has done.

Make up your mind...If he is a lead off hitter,then how does he have 700 more strikeouts than Garvey? Garvey hit for better average,has 700 less strike outs,and almost 200 more RBI.HOW CAN HE HAVE 700 MORE strike outs,and no seasons of 90 or above RBI? GARVEY had 106,110,111,113,and 115 seasons,and managed to do it with 700 less strike outs.Garvey is still way ahead in sacrifice flies.This guy was getting it done.I know exactly how good he was.There is no question he carried those L.A. Teams.They were not great offensive teams.Certainly not the 70's teams.We had to have Manny Mota bloop pinch hits into right field to win pitching duels.Garvey was the only reliable bat,and went forever without missing a game.That guy should be in that Hall.That much I know.You want ta put this punchin' Julie in, then do it after this guy gets in.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There is no question that Biggio is a HOF player. He is one of the 10 best 2nd baseman of all time and arguably could be listed as high as #7.

Obviously the top 6 who are in the HOF are:
1. Rogers Hornsby
2. Nap Lajoie
3. Joe Morgan
4. Eddie Collins
5. Jackie Robinson
6. Charlie Gehinger

Then you have a group that includes Rod Carew, Frankie Frisch and Ryne Sandberg. He fits nicely with these guys and you could easily say that he was a better all around player than any of them especially in light of him playing 4 years at Catcher which surely suppressed his numbers a bit and playing so many of his peak years in the Astrodome which undoubtedly lowered his offensive numbers. He has not been a great player for the last few years but even so his averages are still very comparable and better in some cases than Sandberg and Paul Molitor, both recent inductees. For the record he has 5 silver Slugger awards and 7 all star appearances whereas Molitor had 4 SS awards and 7 all star appearances. The only HOF 2nd baseman with more HR's is Hornsby, He has more RBI's than Sandberg, Carew, Morgan and Robinson. He slg% is higher than Morgan, FRisch, Carew, and Collins. He has more runs than any of them. He has the 6th most 2b's in the history of MLB. He also leads the MLB in history in HBP. He stole more bases than all the other HOF 2nd baseman except for Morgan, Collins and Frisch and he is only 5 behind him. The only HOF 2nd basemen with more hits are Lajoie, Collins and Carew who he should catch this season.

Need more?

Thank you, Chuck ...enough said!

[SCUDSBROTHER]

YOU LEFT OUT THE fact that Biggio has a 700 lead in number of times he has struck out(1700 versus 1000 for Garvey.)Just remember that in your head when you keep saying he is sooooo much better than Garvey.You're pushin' a whiffer.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

YOU LEFT OUT THE fact that Biggio has a 700 lead in number of times he has struck out(1700 versus 1000 for Garvey.)Just remember that in your head when you keep saying he is sooooo much better than Garvey.You're pushin' a whiffer.

Biggio gets on base more, has much more speed, scored a tremendous amount more runs, was a better doubles hitter, triples hitter, as good a power hitter, played gold glove defense at a tougher position, etc.

The only thing Garvey did better was strike out less. Plus Garvey is much more likely to wear a dress in public.

[dylbert]

Rather strange comparison... different position, different type player

Garvey was the original Shawn Kemp! How many different women did he impregnate during SAME TIME PERIOD?

Garvey was joke during his era and does not deserve mention in same breath as Biggio. More interesting comparison... Garvey vs. Bagwell. To paraphrase earlier posting by someone else here, Garvey will have to buy ticket to get into Cooperstown.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There is no question that Biggio is a HOF player. He is one of the 10 best 2nd baseman of all time and arguably could be listed as high as #7.

Obviously the top 6 who are in the HOF are:
1. Rogers Hornsby
2. Nap Lajoie
3. Joe Morgan
4. Eddie Collins
5. Jackie Robinson
6. Charlie Gehinger

Then you have a group that includes Rod Carew, Frankie Frisch and Ryne Sandberg. He fits nicely with these guys and you could easily say that he was a better all around player than any of them especially in light of him playing 4 years at Catcher which surely suppressed his numbers a bit and playing so many of his peak years in the Astrodome which undoubtedly lowered his offensive numbers. He has not been a great player for the last few years but even so his averages are still very comparable and better in some cases than Sandberg and Paul Molitor, both recent inductees. For the record he has 5 silver Slugger awards and 7 all star appearances whereas Molitor had 4 SS awards and 7 all star appearances. The only HOF 2nd baseman with more HR's is Hornsby, He has more RBI's than Sandberg, Carew, Morgan and Robinson. He slg% is higher than Morgan, FRisch, Carew, and Collins. He has more runs than any of them. He has the 6th most 2b's in the history of MLB. He also leads the MLB in history in HBP. He stole more bases than all the other HOF 2nd baseman except for Morgan, Collins and Frisch and he is only 5 behind him. The only HOF 2nd basemen with more hits are Lajoie, Collins and Carew who he should catch this season.

Need more?

Did you happen to miss this post? Do you think I made these numbers up? Or should we say that most of these guys should come out of the Hall because a white guy who people liked had as good a numbers as they did? Or should we throw out Ruth, Cobb and all the other players who played in an era where there were no black or hispanic players? Try to look at the attributes the guy has without bias. Look at his numbers stacked up against the standard for a hall of fame second baseman. He absolutely meets the standard.

[Cannon Shell]

By the way writers would have liked Garvey a lot more as a canidate if he had played at the highest level for about 4 more years instead of fading into an ordinary player. A first baseman who hits 280 Hr's with a .290 batting average has no shot to get into the Hall. Compare him to other Hall of Fame first baseman and tell me how in the world you think he fits?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Did you happen to miss this post? Do you think I made these numbers up? Or should we say that most of these guys should come out of the Hall because a white guy who people liked had as good a numbers as they did? Or should we throw out Ruth, Cobb and all the other players who played in an era where there were no black or hispanic players? Try to look at the attributes the guy has without bias. Look at his numbers stacked up against the standard for a hall of fame second baseman. He absolutely meets the standard.

I answered this post previously.He has been allowed to hang around even though he can't produce well anymore.Then you want to use the quantities of things(over the qualities of things.)Fact is that he has been allowed to keep playing(and get certain benchmark quantities) because he is a loyal white guy on a very white team.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I answered this post previously.He has been allowed to hang around even though he can't produce well anymore.Then you want to use the quantities of things(over the qualities of things.)Fact is that he has been allowed to keep playing(and get certain benchmark quantities) because he is a loyal white guy on a very white team.

None of which has anything to do with the fact that he deserves to be and will be in the Hall of Fame. Should Micheal Jordan not be in the Hall of Fame because he stunk his last few years? Should we kick Steve Carlton out because he was no good his last few years? Does Greg Maddox not deserve to be in because he has been very mediocre the last few years?