and yet another

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Danzig

and that's one reason why this is allowed to continue. his numbers may not be as high as some, but there are always those who will excuse a positive, or two, or ten, or even 22 or so....
he's the trainer, so he's responsible. if his operation is so huge he can't be there to oversee it all, that's HIS problem and no excuse.

a line has to be drawn somewhere, and it should be drawn with a permanent marker! no grey areas, no sliding scale. no excuses!

Danz - As long as medication is part of the game, situations like this will occur. It's not a right/wrong debate - please reread the post- I make no excuses for him and clearly point out that it's 100% his responsibility to which he clearly concurs by evidence of his waving his right to appeal.

My contention is with the select few who have chosen this idiotic and illogical rush to judgement: 1 bute overage = OMG!! CHEATER!! It's assinine and baseless:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

...I'm certainly no fan of the enormous sudden improvements his horses show all too often....

Andy, don't let the fact that he's recognized as one of the finest horsemen in the game dissuade you in anyway from this monumental epiffany. Clearly, it's been the bute talkin' for the past 30+ years.

Originally Posted by Benevolus

.... The sport is dying in part because it is fulled with cheaters and everyone knows it. People have no idea how important the vet has become to the success of a barn.
I don't like to say it because I am a regular listener, but even the veterinarians and the barns that are cheaters get regular spots on radio shows just like the one that is connected to this site. Sad but true....

So now Dr. Allday is implicated too....Without even being accused of anything!!Hey, might as well as long as no facts are required - Lets just run hard working men and womens' reputations through the mud, free speech!

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I second that. He turned freaking Papi Chullo into Spectacular Bid. I'm surprised this is his first positive.

Way to go, Columbo! You've unraveled the mystery! I'm sure Papi Chullo has never been tested under his care.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Andy, don't let the fact that he's recognized as one of the finest horsemen in the game dissuade you in anyway from this monumental epiffany. Clearly, it's been the bute talkin' for the past 30+ years.

That's quite a " fact " you are presenting.

What is a fact is that I'm not accusing him of anything other than the actual " fact " that over the past few years more than a few horses that have come under his care have improved dramatically in an extremely short period of time. What is also a " fact " is that many of these horses have dropped off just as quickly.

I don't know how he does it, and thus can't accuse him of anything, as perhaps it's these supposed superior training skills you allude to. On the other hand, why then do these horses quite often not hold this new form for an extended period of time?

Gary seems like a nice guy, and once again I respect the seriousness with which he accepted this suspension, but as an everyday horseplayer in NY I find guessing how his horses will perform on any given day to be problematic. The past performances often offer conflicting clues.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

That's quite a " fact " you are presenting.

What is a fact is that I'm not accusing him of anything other than the actual " fact " that over the past few years more than a few horses that have come under his care have improved dramatically in an extremely short period of time. What is also a " fact " is that many of these horses have dropped off just as quickly.

I don't know how he does it, and thus can't accuse him of anything, as perhaps it's these supposed superior training skills you allude to. On the other hand, why then do these horses quite often not hold this new form for an extended period of time?

Gary seems like a nice guy, and once again I respect the seriousness with which he accepted this suspension, but as an everyday horseplayer in NY I find guessing how his horses will perform on any given day to be problematic. The past performances often offer conflicting clues.

Understood, although I can't really argue a point from the general to the specific. He's got a sharp eye for talent, and stables that are with him and in the position to move when the situation arises (i.e. Winning Moves) have benefited greatly. As for their form falling off shortly thereafter, I can't attest to what percent of horses off the claim this happens to, and where that percentage may be relative to others in NY.

Form changes when switching barns both, for the good and bad, are as much apart of the game as any of the other myriad of neuances experienced on the backside Why, for instance, does it seem that Bruce Leavine's horses only seem to run for Bruce Leavine? I'm not accusing him of anything untoward, but that's as much of a "fact" as this conjecture about Contess's barn.

As for the "fact" that he was named trainer of the year last year, has over 1500 starts since the first of that year, certainly doesn't get the quality of stock enjoyed by his counterparts, and still manages to remain at the top of the list by working his tail off 7 days a week; qualifies him as one of the finest horsemen in the game, in my opinion.