The Mother Goose Stakes

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

They need to start lowing the Grade in some of these races. This is an OUTRAGE! A Grade 1 race with four horses? What is this California? There are 107 Grade 1 races, and apparently that is way too many opportunities for these guys to get Grade 1 type. Pathetic.

And lowering the grade would accomplish....???

Maybe if a handful of barns didn't control 90% of the quality horses in NY then you might see more competitive races.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

And lowering the grade would accomplish....???

Maybe if a handful of barns didn't control 90% of the quality horses in NY then you might see more competitive races.

The problem isn't the Grade for the Mother Goose, per se, but the overabundance of opportunities for 3YOs to earn black type. However, there aren't that many Grade 1s and I simply can't understand how this is all we get for this race.....three decent Graded Stakes horses and a borderline claimer.

Now, obviously I understand Todd gets way too many of the good horses, and this has a lot to do with this pathetic race, but first of all why can't he run more than one ( certainly owners aren't happy to concede the race to the mediocre Octave ) and where the hell are the other horses? Did nobody know they were running the Mother Goose this year?

[blackthroatedwind]

I bet the connections of High Heels wish they ran here instead of the useless turf experiment at Churchill. Of course, they could have wheeled her back here. And, why wouldn't Cot Campbell insist that Cotton Blossom returned for this race? She had three weeks since her last.

High Again chose the Iowa Oaks instead of staying home for this race. Makes sense. I hope she runs last in Iowa.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I bet the connections of High Heels wish they ran here instead of the useless turf experiment at Churchill. Of course, they could have wheeled her back here. And, why wouldn't Cot Campbell insist that Cotton Blossom returned for this race? She had three weeks since her last.

High Again chose the Iowa Oaks instead of staying home for this race. Makes sense. I hope she runs last in Iowa.

Cotton Blossom is going to Delaware.

Pretty crazy the oaks had so many. The La Troienne had a field of about 10 the next day, which wasn't spectacular in merit, but either are these fillies.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Cotton Blossom is going to Delaware.

Pretty crazy the oaks had so many. The La Troienne had a field of about 10 the next day, which wasn't spectacular in merit, but either are these fillies.

Right. The La Troienne was 7 1/2 Furlongs. You mean to tell me none of those horses could run in the Mother Goose?

[philcski]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The problem isn't the Grade for the Mother Goose, per se, but the overabundance of opportunities for 3YOs to earn black type. However, there aren't that many Grade 1s and I simply can't understand how this is all we get for this race.....three decent Graded Stakes horses and a borderline claimer.

Now, obviously I understand Todd gets way too many of the good horses, and this has a lot to do with this pathetic race, but first of all why can't he run more than one ( certainly owners aren't happy to concede the race to the mediocre Octave ) and where the hell are the other horses? Did nobody know they were running the Mother Goose this year?

Because Panty Raid sucks, right? She can't beat Octave.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by philcski

Because Panty Raid sucks, right? She can't beat Octave.

Doesn't Panty Raid have similar ownership to Octave? In that case it's somewhat understandable that she went out West ( where I also hope she runs ninth ).

If she has different owners whe should definitely be in here. As bad as she is she is not necessarily worse than Boca Grande.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Doesn't Panty Raid have similar ownership to Octave? In that case it's somewhat understandable that she went out West ( where I also hope she runs ninth ).

If she has different owners whe should definitely be in here. As bad as she is she is not necessarily worse than Boca Grande.

She has different owners (Panty Raid- Glencrest, Octave- Starlight).

If I wasn't a fan of the filly I'd agree with you, just to spite Pletcher. He's a phucking schmuck for pulling this, protecting his own business interests.

She's running 3,000 miles away on a surface she's never tried before against at LEAST 10 others, instead of being at WORST 3rd choice in a 5 horse field, with a G2 win at the distance, at HOME and probably the 2nd choice behind a classic hanger in Octave. Yeah, that makes sense.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The problem isn't the Grade for the Mother Goose, per se, but the overabundance of opportunities for 3YOs to earn black type. However, there aren't that many Grade 1s and I simply can't understand how this is all we get for this race.....three decent Graded Stakes horses and a borderline claimer.

Now, obviously I understand Todd gets way too many of the good horses, and this has a lot to do with this pathetic race, but first of all why can't he run more than one ( certainly owners aren't happy to concede the race to the mediocre Octave ) and where the hell are the other horses? Did nobody know they were running the Mother Goose this year?

You would think that there would be a lot of owners that think like you are but it seems they are brainwashed. Funny how everybody in the breeding business talks about Graded Stakes placings and yet grade 1 races on both coasts are routinely 5 (or worse) horse fields.

I rarely think that the Europeans do much better than us but the way they design the stakes schedule of races is far superior to our haphazard, everytrack for themselves way.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You would think that there would be a lot of owners that think like you are but it seems they are brainwashed. Funny how everybody in the breeding business talks about Graded Stakes placings and yet grade 1 races on both coasts are routinely 5 (or worse) horse fields.

I rarely think that the Europeans do much better than us but the way they design the stakes schedule of races is far superior to our haphazard, everytrack for themselves way.

Why wouldn't it be in Todd's best interests to run as many as possible?

[philcski]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Why wouldn't it be in Todd's best interests to run as many as possible?

Because Starlight is one of his top owners and he's gotta make them happy...

As an aside, I knew this disaster of 3YO fillies was coming last year. Anybody remember the Frizette? Truly, honestly, the worst G1 EVER.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by philcski

Because Starlight is one of his top owners and he's gotta make them happy...

As an aside, I knew this disaster of 3YO fillies was coming last year. Anybody remember the Frizette? Truly, honestly, the worst G1 EVER.

The Frizette? How about the Matron?

It's absolute folly that Panty Raid is shipping to the American Oaks and not running here. I could see if the field was tougher, or Todd was already running three, but this is ridiculous. And you know what I think of Panty Raid.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The Frizette? How about the Matron?

It's absolute folly that Panty Raid is shipping to the American Oaks and not running here. I could see if the field was tougher, or Todd was already running three, but this is ridiculous. And you know what I think of Panty Raid.

I don't know what the actual number was for the Frizette, but I got a 57 Beyer equivalent for it. A 57!!! Lily Carson literally was in a trot at the end and STILL finished 3rd.

The question this begs is, when are people going to realize there's plenty of other capable trainers out there and spread the wealth? I honestly think that's a large portion of the field size issues in stakes.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Why wouldn't it be in Todd's best interests to run as many as possible?

Spread em out and try to win them all.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Spread em out and try to win them all.

Yup, you're right, makes sense.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

And lowering the grade would accomplish....???

Maybe if a handful of barns didn't control 90% of the quality horses in NY then you might see more competitive races.

wouldn't logic dictate that if the Grade's were lowered, and there were less Grade 1's, there would be less opportunities to earn G1 type, therefore more horses would have participate in those individual races?

BTW CS, I don't disagree with your point, but I think there are many contributing factors to these problems. These are just the sprinkles on the sundae.

In regards to the Suburban, nominations were due June 16th and there would've been no way of knowing Invasor would not be here to race. Would you want to run against Invasor until you absolutely had to?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

wouldn't logic dictate that if the Grade's were lowered, and there were less Grade 1's, there would be less opportunities to earn G1 type, therefore more horses would have participate in those individual races?

BTW CS, I don't disagree with your point, but I think there are many contributing factors to these problems. These are just the sprinkles on the sundae.

In regards to the Suburban, nominations were due June 16th and there would've been no way of knowing Invasor would not be here to race. Would you want to run against Invasor until you absolutely had to?

I see where you are going and it makes some sense. There are too many graded stakes races and the schedule of stakes is screwed up. But You would need an overhaul of the whole system. Really the best thing would be the elimination of the grades altogether. The breeders would go crazy and the tracks would cry about it. But they really serve no purpose than in many cases greatly over inflating the value of bloodstock and allowing the tracks a marketing item that I think is very overrated at best and meaningless to the betting public at worst. Horseracing and breeding got along just fine for a hundred years without its races being graded.

[ateamstupid]

So are we blaming Pletcher for the embarrassing Suburban field too or are we admitting that the major problem is that 99% of owners are total pussies?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

So are we blaming Pletcher for the embarrassing Suburban field too or are we admitting that the major problem is that 99% of owners are total pussies?

Who is missing?

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Who is missing?

Papi Chullo, Sun King, Premium Tap? I guess the two-week gap from the Foster contributes as well.