Librarians, Keepers of the Liberty

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

You're beginning to see the light ... but ...

... why should anyone ... who has two legs, two arms, and a functioning brain ... need "a leg up"? And who will decide who needs the leg up and who doesn't? And who will decide just what a "leg up" means ... and what it doesn't? That's just another high-minded sounding bit of socialist claptrap.

The only one who really needs a "leg up" ... is a short jockey trying to get on the back of a tall horse.

And Gates and Buffet are intelligently doing what they're doing in order to avoid having the government confiscate their wealth. Do away with the thieving outrage known as the death tax ... wherein the government confiscates wealth which it has already taxed over and over again ... and neither of those two highly successful men would be doing what they're doing in the way that they're doing it. They'd make much better use of their money if left to their own capacious wits without the threat of confiscation.

So you dont think our government role extends to helping people in any way?
In other words, the government is needed to do what? Example: I consider the military a big leg up for many people. I know of a number of people that would not be where they are today without our government's military training. Why is the military controlled by the government? Why not just let proftit driven private entities run the military?

And Buffet could have given a hell of a lot more money to his descendants and he decided not to. His children will still be very wealthy, but he could have "captured" a hell of a lot more of his personal money for relatives. You are misinformed on his decision.
Your sites dont give you the whole story. You need to have more weapons in your arsenal if you wish to argue intelligently. Those crappy biased political sites are exactly that, political sites. They do not attempt to reveal truths. Keep searching for things that fit your worldview and throw out the rest, and you will continue to handicap your ability to learn because you dont have all sides of an issue. Its up to you, old or young. If you cannot be flexible mentally, you are a great disadvantage into today's world. Good luck.

[irishtrekker]

Originally Posted by pgardn

And Buffet could have given a hell of a lot more money to his descendants and he decided not to. His children will still be very wealthy, but he could have "captured" a hell of a lot more of his personal money for relatives. You are misinformed on his decision.

I honestly can't fathom that anyone would actually believe Gates and Buffet are being motivated by self-interest. Gates is possibly the most generous benefactor EVER of global health problems. His dad is a major proponent of KEEPING the estate tax (I've talked to him one-on-one a few times, so I know, but he's made very public statements in support of the estate tax).

Originally Posted by irishtrekker

I honestly can't fathom that anyone would actually believe Gates and Buffet are being motivated by self-interest. Gates is possibly the most generous benefactor EVER of global health problems. His dad is a major proponent of KEEPING the estate tax (I've talked to him one-on-one a few times, so I know, but he's made very public statements in support of the estate tax).

Nonetheless ...

... both Bill Gates and Warren Buffet have moved their billions out of the reach of the tax collector. The U.S. government will not be "benefiting" from any of that money.

That ... my good friend ... is what is known as a fact.

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Nonetheless ...

... both Bill Gates and Warren Buffet have moved their billions out of the reach of the tax collector. The U.S. government will not be "benefiting" from any of that money.

That ... my good friend ... is what is known as a fact.

This is true. But why did they do it? The Gates mission is thought of as one of the best at giving out CHARITY. They do their homework on how the money will be spent best. So again, you are saying Gates and Buffet just do this work to avoid giving it to the government, not to help other people besides themselves.... is this what you are typing?

You are making these gentlemen sound like all they are trying to do is keep money away from the US government... That this is their sole purpose. That is bogus.

Again you give out a fact and then dont go any further. You just stop and dont dig any deeper. Very much like your websites. It is really sad that people like you dig deep enough just to skew the real issues and satisfy your beliefs that would never change, even if the evidence changes. Its your choice. Stay handicapped. Borders on zealotry. Very sad indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn
So black families were not as affluent as white families on the whole. We of course know that SOME white families were poorer than black families, but on the whole... why did black families experience more economic hardship compared to white families?




And you bypassed the above.

You want to give this a try again? Or just drop it like its hot? Better drop it. A question like this, for someone like you, is terribly difficult.

[irishtrekker]

Kinda like all the questions about homeless kids I keep raising. No one seems interested in talking about that...

Okay, seriously, I have to go work. Six weeks, 20K words, one loooong summer left to go!

Originally Posted by irishtrekker

Kinda like all the questions about homeless kids I keep raising. No one seems interested in talking about that...

Okay, seriously, I have to go work. Six weeks, 20K words, one loooong summer left to go!

Terribly difficult situation. And I am off for chores. Good day.

Originally Posted by irishtrekker

Kinda like all the questions about homeless kids I keep raising. No one seems interested in talking about that...

Pose the questions ... and we'll try to answer them.

Originally Posted by pgardn

This is true. But why did they do it? The Gates mission is thought of as one of the best at giving out CHARITY. They do their homework on how the money will be spent best. So again, you are saying Gates and Buffet just do this work to avoid giving it to the government, not to help other people besides themselves.... is this what you are typing?

You are making these gentlemen sound like all they are trying to do is keep money away from the US government... That this is their sole purpose. That is bogus.

Again you give out a fact and then dont go any further. You just stop and dont dig any deeper. Very much like your websites. It is really sad that people like you dig deep enough just to skew the real issues and satisfy your beliefs that would never change, even if the evidence changes. Its your choice. Stay handicapped. Borders on zealotry. Very sad indeed.

I made it quite clear that I don't know what motivates Gates and Buffet ... nor does it matter.

The only point I made is that they've taken actions which prevent the government from confiscating their wealth.

I applaud those actions ... but I'd prefer that death taxes be eliminated ... because ...

...if death taxes didn't exist AND Gates and Buffert did the same things with their money ... then we'd know for sure what their motivations were. But the existence of the death tax puts a cloud over all foundations ... and that's a darn shame.

[irishtrekker]

Augh! If you really think the move casts doubt on the Gates' position, WHY would the Gateses publically support the estate tax and lobby against our state initiative to repeal it? Make the statement pretty clear to me, unless you're just determined not to see what's going on.

Originally Posted by irishtrekker

Augh! If you really think the move casts doubt on the Gates' position, WHY would the Gateses publically support the estate tax and lobby against our state initiative to repeal it? Make the statement pretty clear to me, unless you're just determined not to see what's going on.

It doesn't matter what they say ... it matters what they do.

They can say they "support" death taxes until the cows come home ... but the fact is ... they've taken actions which completely avoid them.

It's like Hillary Clinton voicing her ardent support for public education ... then sending her daughter to the toniest private school.

Don't fall for the dekes and the shake-n'-bake ... let the actions provide the proof ... not the hot air.

[irishtrekker]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Nonetheless ...

... both Bill Gates and Warren Buffet have moved their billions out of the reach of the tax collector. The U.S. government will not be "benefiting" from any of that money.

That ... my good friend ... is what is known as a fact.

Yes, but your insinuation that they did it out of some sort of anti-tax logic is a little off-base.

Like I said, Gates Sr. *supports* the estate tax, and from what he's said, his son does, too...so I don't really think they were thinking, "Yippee! No estate tax!" when they committed their lives and energy to fighting global poverty. Gates is quitting his company to work on improving global health. Don't hold him up as the poster-boy for fiscal conservatism, because he's not.

Originally Posted by irishtrekker

Yes, but your insinuation that they did it out of some sort of anti-tax logic is a little off-base.

Like I said, Gates Sr. *supports* the estate tax, and from what he's said, his son does, too...so I don't really think they were thinking, "Yippee! No estate tax!" when they committed their lives and energy to fighting global poverty. Gates is quitting his company to work on improving global health. Don't hold him up as the poster-boy for fiscal conservatism, because he's not.

As I wrote in my previous post ... death taxes DO exist ... and Gates and Buffet have taken actions which avoid them.

It would be much better if death taxes DIDN'T exist ... then talented people like Gates and Bufffet wouldn't have to twist themselves into knots ... and take actions which put their motives into question ... in order to maintain control of their own wealth.

Originally Posted by pgardn

So you dont think our government role extends to helping people in any way?
In other words, the government is needed to do what? Example: I consider the military a big leg up for many people. I know of a number of people that would not be where they are today without our government's military training. Why is the military controlled by the government? Why not just let proftit driven private entities run the military?

The U.S. military is in no way a welfare program. It exists to perform the very function for which the government exists ... that is ... to maintain the freedom of the citizens who form that government.

Those who enrol in the miltary must work very hard ... and meet exacting standards ... in order to remain there. All money and benefits accruing to military personnel is earned by them ... military salaries are not welfare payments.

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

The U.S. military is in no way a welfare program. It exists to perform the very function for which the government exists ... that is ... to maintain the freedom of the citizens who form that government.

Those who enrol in the miltary must work very hard ... and meet exacting standards ... in order to remain there. All money and benefits accruing to military personnel is earned by them ... military salaries are not welfare payments.

The military has been an incredible opportunity for people who find themselves in much worse situations than you or I have, to access the enormous opportunity that this country has to offer. In my definition that is a leg up. Helping people to help themselves. The rigor and discipline required in serving ones country is an obvious advantage later in life to many.

Should a government in any way be responsible for helping people to help themselves? Or that should all come privately, or it just does not need to happen at all (people should have no reason to enter any program that will help them to be better equipped to succeed in our society)? Please do tell.

Originally Posted by pgardn

And Buffet could have given a hell of a lot more money to his descendants and he decided not to. His children will still be very wealthy, but he could have "captured" a hell of a lot more of his personal money for relatives. You are misinformed on his decision.
Your sites dont give you the whole story. You need to have more weapons in your arsenal if you wish to argue intelligently. Those crappy biased political sites are exactly that, political sites. They do not attempt to reveal truths. Keep searching for things that fit your worldview and throw out the rest, and you will continue to handicap your ability to learn because you dont have all sides of an issue. Its up to you, old or young. If you cannot be flexible mentally, you are a great disadvantage into today's world. Good luck.

You can blather all you want ... and indeed you do ...

... but the unmistakable fact is that neither Gates nor Buffet will be paying any estate taxes to the government ... all those billions of dollars have been sheltered from the government's reach.

None of us know their real motivations ... but it makes no difference .. . no matter what their motivations are ... that doesn't alter the fact that they have indeed sheltered their money from the taxman's reach.