A petition to save the people of Darfur

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

The UN hasn't had strength or honor or power for a very long time. I'm saying that if Mighty Congress has any ideas ....now would be a good time to do something about Darfur. The Presidents' failures have been catalogued previously.

I don't expect much from the current "Mighty Congress", especially regarding Darfur.
I will not bring up the President's failures. That seems to be what the Dems are waiting for the voters to see before the Nov 08 elections.
The shame of it all is that so many people will die in the meanwhile.
The Repubs will run on "illegal immigrants" and "creationism".
The Dems will run on "anti-repub issues".
Corporate PAC's with hedge their bets soas to win either way.
Darfur? Honestly, how many votes is that one gonna getcha?
Shame and sad...but that's the way it is.
Good night and good luck!

[timmgirvan]

I know..it sucks!

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

I know..it sucks!

Timm,
Here's Desmond Tutu putting pressure on the EU. His words make sense, but time is of the essence.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0621/p09s01-coop.htm

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Timm,
Here's Desmond Tutu putting pressure on the EU. His words make sense, but time is of the essence.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0621/p09s01-coop.htm

DTS: Tutus' words are all well and good,but I fail to see what sanctions could be imposed that wouldn't increase an already impotent, failed diplomatic accord! What would China benefit from involvement in this situation? Forgive me, I'm not currently on top of this situation. Again,as Tutu pointed out, the UN has been ineffective in their efforts to date.

[Cannon Shell]

We should use all diplomatic efforts to stop the killing of civilians. But this is really a UN issue. This situation, however impossible to end, should be tended to by the UN and African Union. We need to stay out of direct involvement, principally because it is a no win situation that will need to be monitored perhaps forever. There are so many problems in the Sudan that can not be solved by anyone, like the fact the land there can't support enugh food to feed the people even under the best of times. This notion that China can solve the problem is illinformed. Any diplomatic attempt to put China in the middle of this mess is only to deflect attention from the issue itself and other western countries inablility or desire to get directly involved. Oil is the only resource that the Sudan has that is worth anything. But to think that the 3 warring sides will put down their weapons and sign a lasting accord if China pulls the plug is fools gold. These groups have signed so many treaties and cease fires over the years, pretty much none of them effective. The country has been at civil war for most of its years in existence and probably will for years to come. There is no real solution to the problem and though it is tragic, placing blame on the US or China is wrong.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

We should use all diplomatic efforts to stop the killing of civilians. But this is really a UN issue. This situation, however impossible to end, should be tended to by the UN and African Union. We need to stay out of direct involvement, principally because it is a no win situation that will need to be monitored perhaps forever. There are so many problems in the Sudan that can not be solved by anyone, like the fact the land there can't support enugh food to feed the people even under the best of times. This notion that China can solve the problem is illinformed. Any diplomatic attempt to put China in the middle of this mess is only to deflect attention from the issue itself and other western countries inablility or desire to get directly involved. Oil is the only resource that the Sudan has that is worth anything. But to think that the 3 warring sides will put down their weapons and sign a lasting accord if China pulls the plug is fools gold. These groups have signed so many treaties and cease fires over the years, pretty much none of them effective. The country has been at civil war for most of its years in existence and probably will for years to come. There is no real solution to the problem and though it is tragic, placing blame on the US or China is wrong.

There is a simple truth here...the UN will not solve the problem for many reasons...most already detailed here. China COULD help a great deal but won't. The US is the ONLY force on this planet capable of ending the genocide...but it will take long-term involvement and will cost American lives. We SHOULD do it...it is the right thing to do! But what politician will support extensive US involvement? The American public has shown twice in the last 50 years that when there isn't an "easy, quick fix" there is no desire to "stay the course". Nobody wants to see young American men and women die, I know what it's like to be in a strange land with folks trying to kill you but frankly, we are the only "Super Power" left and with that power comes a responsibility not to sit on our hands while tens of thousands of innocent people are butchered...I've heard all the "it's not our problem" rhetoric...but these are our brothers and sisters being slaughtered and, yes...we are our brother's keeper!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

There is a simple truth here...the UN will not solve the problem for many reasons...most already detailed here. China COULD help a great deal but won't. The US is the ONLY force on this planet capable of ending the genocide...but it will take long-term involvement and will cost American lives. We SHOULD do it...it is the right thing to do! But what politician will support extensive US involvement? The American public has shown twice in the last 50 years that when there isn't an "easy, quick fix" there is no desire to "stay the course". Nobody wants to see young American men and women die, I know what it's like to be in a strange land with folks trying to kill you but frankly, we are the only "Super Power" left and with that power comes a responsibility not to sit on our hands while tens of thousands of innocent people are butchered...I've heard all the "it's not our problem" rhetoric...but these are our brothers and sisters being slaughtered and, yes...we are our brother's keeper!

There is nothing that the US could do. I love when people make these generalizations about what we could do without one single solid idea. Economic santions dont work there because they have no exports except oil and we dont get any from there. The country is too big and diverse for us to take over and monitor especially when all sides are going to be resentful of us after we rescue/police them. The Chinese are not going to let us go and shut off their oil production plants. It will only serve to become another costly occupation in a place where nothing will change after we leave. Sad but true.

[hi_im_god]

i signed the petition. now i feel much better.

it's nice i could do so much for the problems of the world so easily.

i'm surprise more people aren't doing this.

i still feel bad about the people in n korea though. i might start a string on the internet about them.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

i signed the petition. now i feel much better.

it's nice i could do so much for the problems of the world so easily.

i'm surprise more people aren't doing this.

i still feel bad about the people in n korea though. i might start a string on the internet about them.

Making fun of people who speak out against injustice does nothing to make things better. Signing a petition won't stop the killing, but if enough people sign...political types notice. It's a small thing but better than nothing...cynical, self-serving mocking only confirms the view that some folks really have nothing, aside from themselves, to focus on.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

DTS: Tutus' words are all well and good,but I fail to see what sanctions could be imposed that wouldn't increase an already impotent, failed diplomatic accord! What would China benefit from involvement in this situation? Forgive me, I'm not currently on top of this situation. Again,as Tutu pointed out, the UN has been ineffective in their efforts to date.

Timm,
In my post #13 I said that the UN has been ineffective previously.
As far as China, they have oil interests and it doesn't look to me like they'll jeopardize their energy sources.
I really don't see the USA doing much militarily as we're already spread very thin. Perhaps diplomatically with EU support.
I really don't know how this will all shake out, except that many will continue to die.
Cannon Shell raises some interesting points, and many that I agree with, especially on the problem of the region's ability to supply food for the populace, even in "good" times.
Like Somerfrost, I also wish that something effective could be done. At this point, I don't see what "it" is. Tragic is a word that comes to mind.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Timm,
In my post #13 I said that the UN has been ineffective previously.
As far as China, they have oil interests and it doesn't look to me like they'll jeopardize their energy sources.
I really don't see the USA doing much militarily as we're already spread very thin. Perhaps diplomatically with EU support.
I really don't know how this will all shake out, except that many will continue to die.
Cannon Shell raises some interesting points, and many that I agree with, especially on the problem of the region's ability to supply food for the populace, even in "good" times.
Like Somerfrost, I also wish that something effective could be done. At this point, I don't see what "it" is. Tragic is a word that comes to mind.

Though I am far from an expert on Sudanese affairs, I cant think of a way that we can really do anything that will change anything there. Hatred among the various tribes/sects/religions/etc. is not going to go away nor will our military scare anyone as we must play by the rules and the bad guys know this. The fact that some of the principals are getting rich and supplied off of Chinese oil money is also a issue that is not ours to solve. Saying that the Chinese can fix this situation is also not realistic. They have no dog in the fight except they have invested a large amount of money in the Sudanese oil industry which would probably not exist if not for the Chinese. I'm sure that they are not happy about the situation but it would make me more nervous if they shipped a hundred thousand Chinese troops into the african continent. This is a problem that has no answer in real life terms.