Finally, JUSTICE:

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Actually, it's absurd to think that 15 yo girls are as capable as 17 yo boys of making these kind of judgements. What would you want to do...? ... Have laws subject to a "MAturity IQ Test?" Maybe you think it's ok for a 17 yo to decide that having public sex with a 15 yo girl is an ok thing. I do not.

Unfortunately with the law, you have to rely on set standards such as a specific age...what should happen is that the intent of the law should be considered along with the letter of same. If a 40yo man was involved here, it would be a different story but there is no way to judge the maturity of the two kids involved here...BECAUSE THEY ARE BOTH KIDS. I'll go out a a limb and say this young lady knew exactly what she was doing and as she said, enjoyed doing it. He was acting like most 17 year old guys...this was an encounter between two kids who both wanted it...no way the law should be involved and to call this kid a sexual predator and sentence him to 10 years without parole is insane! Where was the harm? Who was the Victim? Two years later and the girl still denies being a victim...she's 17 now so I guess by your standards she's magically evolved to a place where she would know?

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Unfortunately with the law, you have to rely on set standards such as a specific age...what should happen is that the intent of the law should be considered along with the letter of same. If a 40yo man was involved here, it would be a different story but there is no way to judge the maturity of the two kids involved here...BECAUSE THEY ARE BOTH KIDS. I'll go out a a limb and say this young lady knew exactly what she was doing and as she said, enjoyed doing it. He was acting like most 17 year old guys...this was an encounter between two kids who both wanted it...no way the law should be involved and to call this kid a sexual predator and sentence him to 10 years without parole is insane! Where was the harm? Who was the Victim? Two years later and the girl still denies being a victim...she's 17 now so I guess by your standards she's magically evolved to a place where she would know?

Sorry, I won't take the bait. I'll end by saying that if you think there is no difference between a 15 yo girl and a 17 yo boy, then you are out on a pretty lonely limb.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Sorry, I won't take the bait. I'll end by saying that if you think there is no difference between a 15 yo girl and a 17 yo boy, then you are out on a pretty lonely limb.

Well, I think you're pretty naive so we disagree. What I said was that there is no hard fast rule that a particular 17 year old boy is necessarily more mature than a particular 15 yo girl...both are kids. It's interesting to me how people like to challenge me and when I answer a question and pose one in return they duck rather than answer. Again...the girl is now 17, according to your view (the boy at 17 was mature enough to be held responsible), why isn't she now mature enough to make sexual decisions? She continues to say she intiated it, she was experienced previously, and she enjoyed it and doesn't feel the slightest bit like a victim, why is she wrong and you right? Do you know more about her, her emotions, wants, needs and desires than she does?

[Danzig]

isn't it a general rule that girls mature faster than boys? so she's fifteen, but possibly on par with a 17 year old boy....

also, she's immature--yet most states would allow her to make the oh so adult decision to have an abortion--if she killed someone, you can bet your sweet patootie they'd fight tooth and nail to have her charged as an adult. how convenient that the law can decide adulthood when they wish!


the fact is tho, regardless of what awful things occurred in that room, that he was sentenced to ten years due to having oral sex. not sex--the others who had intercourse with her were not charged. i think it's a travesty, and i hope he is released asap.

btw, i didn't do that crap at that age either.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Danzig

isn't it a general rule that girls mature faster than boys? so she's fifteen, but possibly on par with a 17 year old boy....

also, she's immature--yet most states would allow her to make the oh so adult decision to have an abortion--if she killed someone, you can bet your sweet patootie they'd fight tooth and nail to have her charged as an adult. how convenient that the law can decide adulthood when they wish!


the fact is tho, regardless of what awful things occurred in that room, that he was sentenced to ten years due to having oral sex. not sex--the others who had intercourse with her were not charged. i think it's a travesty, and i hope he is released asap.

btw, i didn't do that crap at that age either.

Yep, honestly though there is no way of knowing which was more mature but the issue is that they were both kids...even the state congressman who drafted the law said he never intended it to be used against kids...and, largely due to this case, the law was changed! This is a case where a law designed to protect kids from sexual predators was used to ensnare a poor kid who is guilty of poor judgement...god, if that was a crime we'd all be doing life!

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig

also, she's immature--yet most states would allow her to make the oh so adult decision to have an abortion--

Actually, 31 states have parental notification laws- 16 of those states require parental consent, and 15 require notification. On top of that, 10 states enacted laws that are currently blocked by the courts from taking effect, so that's 41 states with some sort of parental involvement law in the books. Only 2 states and the District of Columbia have laws affirming a minor's right to make the decision to abort a pregnancy on her own.

Just wanted to clear that up.

[GenuineRisk]

This case is, I think, an excellent example of why legislators need to look at the laws on the books every few years and update them. The judge didn't want to sentence the kid to ten years; he was pretty clear about that, but the law left him no choice- it was very clear about penalties for oral sex. The jury who found the kid guilty were horrified when they found out what their decision meant. I think the law, due in part to this case, was changed, but it was after the verdict and the kid could not be grandfathered in (again, due to the laws on the books). Whether or not the girl consented doesn't matter in the eyes of the law.

It's a horrific outcome, no question, and I can't believe the state is continuing to pursue this when it could let it go, but the kids happened to break an archaic law that happened to have very stiff penalties. Hey, in Georgia up until 1998, oral sex even between a husband and a wife was punishable by up to 20 years in prison. Can you imagine THAT pillow talk, "Sorry honey; I don't want to go to jail."

Here's the Wikipedia entry on the Wilson case- it gives a good summary of how it came to pass:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genarlow_Wilson

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Well, I think you're pretty naive so we disagree. What I said was that there is no hard fast rule that a particular 17 year old boy is necessarily more mature than a particular 15 yo girl...both are kids. It's interesting to me how people like to challenge me and when I answer a question and pose one in return they duck rather than answer. Again...the girl is now 17, according to your view (the boy at 17 was mature enough to be held responsible), why isn't she now mature enough to make sexual decisions? She continues to say she intiated it, she was experienced previously, and she enjoyed it and doesn't feel the slightest bit like a victim, why is she wrong and you right? Do you know more about her, her emotions, wants, needs and desires than she does?

What question did you ask me? I'll be more than happy to answer.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

What question did you ask me? I'll be more than happy to answer.

Can't you read?

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Can't you read?

You flatter yourself with your bullsh1t about "people avoid me, etc... when I ask a question."

If you had a 17 year old son and lived in a state where it is illegal for a 17 year old male to have sex with a 15 year old female and your son got his knob polished in front of a bunch of other people while being taped, would you be shocked if he got prosecuted? Personally I would not. If you think that's not something to be prosecuted, that's fine with me. I don't care.

I could care less about convincing you or anyone here about a point of view. Just expressing one.

As far as your asinine "Can't you read?" comment, it's, well, just asinine.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

You flatter yourself with your bullsh1t about "people avoid me, etc... when I ask a question."

If you had a 17 year old son and lived in a state where it is illegal for a 17 year old male to have sex with a 15 year old female and your son got his knob polished in front of a bunch of other people while being taped, would you be shocked if he got prosecuted? Personally I would not. If you think that's not something to be prosecuted, that's fine with me. I don't care.

I could care less about convincing you or anyone here about a point of view. Just expressing one.

As far as your asinine "Can't you read?" comment, it's, well, just asinine.

You're the one who asked "what question" after I asked it twice in plain english...I understand it's just your way of avoiding the question, I'm not flattering myself...don't have to! it's simple really...I asked twice and your response..."what question". Well, I'm still waiting for a response but I realize that you'll probably just trot out more mush. Would I be surprised if he got prosecuted...I'd be way beyond surprised if he got ten years with no parole! Do I personally think it should be a crime for two kids to have consentual sex? No, I don't think prosecuting them is the answer. Now if the boy was 17 and the girl 5 then you have a different story of course, but an experienced 15 yo giving consensual head to a 17 yo should not be a crime imo. In order to have a crime, you need a victim...the girl says absolutely she's not a victim so who is?

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Well, I think you're pretty naive so we disagree. What I said was that there is no hard fast rule that a particular 17 year old boy is necessarily more mature than a particular 15 yo girl...both are kids. It's interesting to me how people like to challenge me and when I answer a question and pose one in return they duck rather than answer. Again...the girl is now 17, according to your view (the boy at 17 was mature enough to be held responsible), why isn't she now mature enough to make sexual decisions? She continues to say she intiated it, she was experienced previously, and she enjoyed it and doesn't feel the slightest bit like a victim, why is she wrong and you right? Do you know more about her, her emotions, wants, needs and desires than she does?

Nice duck again...actually a very superficial attempt but I'm trying to be nice...for the third time, see above question.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Nice duck again...actually a very superficial attempt but I'm trying to be nice...for the third time, see above question.

Ok, I see this one (and GFY for the "duck" comment). Obviously 17 is different than 15. But it's asinine to say a 17 yo can say what she did years before was right, wrong, or whatever.

And, yes, ABSOLUTELY, I think if you or your 17 year old son is going to have sex with a 15 year old, whether or not she wants it or begs for it, you owe it to yourself and your 17 year old son to know if it's legal. YES, ABSOLUTELY, knowing what is legal is important. How in the world is that a difficult concept to grasp? I do not agree with every law there is. But if choose to break one, I'm certainly liable for the consequences.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Ok, I see this one (and GFY for the "duck" comment). Obviously 17 is different than 15. But it's asinine to say a 17 yo can say what she did years before was right, wrong, or whatever.

And, yes, ABSOLUTELY, I think if you or your 17 year old son is going to have sex with a 15 year old, whether or not she wants it or begs for it, you owe it to yourself and your 17 year old son to know if it's legal. YES, ABSOLUTELY, knowing what is legal is important. How in the world is that a difficult concept to grasp? I do not agree with every law there is. But if choose to break one, I'm certainly liable for the consequences.

Explain to me why it is asinine? On the one hand, you say the boy at 17 is responsible and capable of knowing right from wrong and making decisions about his life, now you are saying that the girl, now 17, isn't capable of the same??? Of course, using your criteria for the boy, she has to be...and she says, she wasn't a victim, she initiated it, she wanted to do it and she enjoyed it...so again, where is the victim? And woa there fellow, when did I ever imply that I would have sex with a 15 year old??? I simply was asking for a clarification on what that means to you.