Rags!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Stall Mucker

What a Belmont. I liked Rags from the time of entry and she did not disappoint.
Yes, I got the sick feeling at the start and was screamin at the finish. The dog is now avoiding me.

you too huh? what is it with dogs, you start yelling, they automatically assume it's at them...such a guilt complex!

[Travis Stone]

For those comparing Beyers to determine where she belong on the list of all-time greats please remember that Beyer speed figures measure speed and speed only. They do not measure heart, and they do not measure class, for which Rags to Riches has both.

It's amazing -- we see an awesome horse race, with two classy, fast and amazing individuals battle head-and-head down the stretch, and already the naysayers and dissenters are out in force about her place in history.

To me, history is winning a classic horse race. Check. (Belmont Stakes..and Oaks)

To me, history is overcoming obstacles. Check (wide-trip).

And finally, history is doing something unusual, extraordinary, out-of-the-norm..double check (A filly beats the boys, and answers a classy foes every attempt at the lead).

Is she the greatest of all time? Can't say yes or no to that, but I can say she was the greatest today.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

For those comparing Beyers to determine where she belong on the list of all-time greats please remember that Beyer speed figures measure speed and speed only. They do not measure heart, and they do not measure class, for which Rags to Riches has both.

It's amazing -- we see an awesome horse race, with two classy, fast and amazing individuals battle head-and-head down the stretch, and already the naysayers and dissenters are out in force about her place in history.

To me, history is winning a classic horse race. Check. (Belmont Stakes..and Oaks)

To me, history is overcoming obstacles. Check (wide-trip).

And finally, history is doing something unusual, extraordinary, out-of-the-norm..double check (A filly beats the boys, and answers a classy foes every attempt at the lead).

Is she the greatest of all time? Can't say yes or no to that, but I can say she was the greatest today.

i think she showed tremendous courage, every time curlin came at her, she turned him back.
it'd be nice if those kind of entries happened more often. i think people are surprised when fillies do so well, because they are under the false assumption that fillies can't compete on that level, when those of us who follow this sport know it happens quite often--albeit overseas.

curlin showed that kind of grit in the preakness, and tried his heart out today. but the filly was a bit better.

it was a great race, very exciting. it's one to remember for sure.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

It's amazing -- we see an awesome horse race, with two classy, fast and amazing individuals battle head-and-head down the stretch, and already the naysayers and dissenters are out in force about her place in history.

why are you a naysayer to objectively analyzed a race and a horses ability? I think if somone just jumps on the bandwagon and say a horse is great without looking at all the context that is the real disservice.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Is she the greatest of all time? Can't say yes or no to that, but I can say she was the greatest today.

Look, I said she'd win the Kentucky Oaks after I saw her break her maiden earlier in the year--and was very under the radar.

I argued with a few people here, mainly MisterB, that she absolutley belonged in the race...

She basically ran her race today.....and her race was good enough to beat Curlin and Hard Spun at 12 furlongs.

Does that make her an all-time great filly? You obviously BADLY misunderstood the point I made about her figures---as the point flattered her.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Look, I said she'd win the Kentucky Oaks after I saw her break her maiden earlier in the year--and was very under the radar.

I argued with a few people here, mainly MisterB, that she absolutley belonged in the race...

She basically ran her race today.....and her race was good enough to beat Curlin and Hard Spun at 12 furlongs.

Does that make her an all-time great filly? You obviously BADLY misunderstood the point I made about her figures---as the point flattered her.

I'm certainly not willing to compare her to Ruffian or the greatest ever, Kincsem but she certainly has shown almost unlimited potential...we'll see how she does against older and then comparisons may or may not be appropriate!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I'm certainly not willing to compare her to Ruffian or the greatest ever, Kincsem but she certainly has shown almost unlimited potential...we'll see how she does against older and then comparisons may or may not be appropriate!

enough with the Kincsem please.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

enough with the Kincsem please.

Why? She's the standard by which I judge all fillies and mares, you can agree or disagree but my opinion is as valid as your's!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Why? She's the standard by which I judge all fillies and mares, you can agree or disagree but my opinion is as valid as your's!

How in the world can you compare a Hungarian filly who raced in the 1800's to modern horses? It is not an opinion thing but a relevance thing.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I'm certainly not willing to compare her to Ruffian or the greatest ever, Kincsem but she certainly has shown almost unlimited potential...we'll see how she does against older and then comparisons may or may not be appropriate!

I've seen some spectacular fillies.....she's every bit as dominant as any of them have been in their own division...but there is nothing else in her own division (as an example, wide trip Cotton Blossom chugged home in the Acorn today) --- and, we all know that there are only three real good males in the 3-year-old crop...

They being Curlin, Street Sense, and Hard Spun --- one of them didn't show up for the race today, the other has VERY suspect breeding for 12 furlongs and has done a lot in a short amount of time, the other consistantly runs "fast early-slow late" race shapes...and was suspect at this distance because of that.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Rags To Riches performance....but, I've seen some really outstanding fillies before...and she still needs to develop and improve to reach their level.

People also shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the 12 furlong distance of the Belmont was totally to her benefit. Is she an all-time great filly at a 12 furlong distance? I don't know....but, at that distance anyway, she's probably as good as any I've ever seen.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I've seen some spectacular fillies.....she's every bit as dominant as any of them have been in their own division...but there is nothing else in her own division (as an example, wide trip Cotton Blossom chugged home in the Acorn today) --- and, we all know that there are only three real good males in the 3-year-old crop...

They being Curlin, Street Sense, and Hard Spun --- one of them didn't show up for the race today, the other has VERY suspect breeding for 12 furlongs and has done a lot in a short amount of time, the other consistantly runs "fast early-slow late" race shapes...and was suspect at this distance because of that.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Rags To Riches performance....but, I've seen some really outstanding fillies before...and she still needs to develop and improve to reach their level.

People also shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the 12 furlong distance of the Belmont was totally to her benefit. Is she an all-time great filly at a 12 furlong distance? I don't know....but, at that distance anyway, she's probably as good as any I've ever seen.

I agree, just saying she appears to have that kind of potential, only time will determine whether she realizes it!

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I agree, just saying she appears to have that kind of potential, only time will determine whether she realizes it!

A lot of the very good fillies I've seen through the years have never had the chance to run against males--in the type of race that was totally to their benefit.

If anyone remembers back to 1992, a 3-year-old filly named Jolypha came over from Europe...she ran 3rd in the Breeders Cup Classic in her dirt debut, losing to only A. P. Indy (R2R's sire) and Pleasant Tap (Tiago's sire)

I just hope that people don't lose sight of the fact that Rags to Riches was much better suited for a race like the Belmont....than her other main rivals in there. Pletcher would have been a fool to not run her....and to his credit, he's no fool.

[pick4]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

For those comparing Beyers to determine where she belong on the list of all-time greats please remember that Beyer speed figures measure speed and speed only. They do not measure heart, and they do not measure class, for which Rags to Riches has both.

It's amazing -- we see an awesome horse race, with two classy, fast and amazing individuals battle head-and-head down the stretch, and already the naysayers and dissenters are out in force about her place in history.

To me, history is winning a classic horse race. Check. (Belmont Stakes..and Oaks)

To me, history is overcoming obstacles. Check (wide-trip).

And finally, history is doing something unusual, extraordinary, out-of-the-norm..double check (A filly beats the boys, and answers a classy foes every attempt at the lead).

Is she the greatest of all time? Can't say yes or no to that, but I can say she was the greatest today.

My wallet would have been heavier if Curlin had prevailed. I initially liked Rags to Riches from a handicapping perspective but was talked off of her. I did not have a strong opinion in the Belmont Stakes and was wishy washy. But I also liked Rags to Riches from a fans perspective. In hindsight I should have added her to my tickets, but I've learned that rooting for a horse to win because of sentimental reason and betting a horse on handicapping logic does not mix. My mistake was ignoring my initial thoughts that Rags to Riches matched up well with these horses well with the fact that she is a she a non thought.

I was in the stands today and once they got to the 1/8 pole, I realized I was about to have a birdseye view of an historical event. 102 years since a filly won this great race and I'm about to see it happen live in person. At that point the gambling aspect went out the window for me. A friend who was next to me was rooting on Tiago to close the gap. I remember grabbing him and saying we're watching history. When Rags to Riches past the finish line I had a strange feeling of delight. I looked at my arms and saw my arms covered in goosebumps. I can't ever remember a horse race ever having tha effect on me. Even races where I won significant amounts of money. The stands which were sparsely crowded for most of the day were packing and were very loud.

As far as saying she is the greatest filly of all time, I think it's like the same argument that goes on with baseball in particular but other sports as well. Comparing athetes who did not compete together in the same era is hypothetical. There is no true correct answer and it's all opinion. She's clearly head and shoulders above her generation.

Rags to Riches victory will bring positive coverage to horse racing. Emotionally people will probably to horse racing in a favorable light.
Hopefully her connections let her run for the next year at the very least.

She's an incredible athlete. I don't care if it was 6, 8, 9, 10, 20 furlongs...she beat Curlin fair and square and will forever be remembered as a champion.

I expect the Classic could be in her future. I hope so.