Rasheed Wallace

Originally Posted by GPK

chuck, why do you have to bring facts into all this????

Kev this is all opinion and supposition on my part. The only thing that matters in the end is the ring. And Bird HAD to be on the Celtics team or they would not have those championships... imo.

Again. This is from a person who absolutley hated Bird... From the depths of my soul. He was a trash talker, dirty (at the appropriate times), but so unique. Bird showed that a forward could control a game. Anytime the Celtics had to have something done the ball was in his hands. He was the Man on that team. Its so obvious to me.
Bird was a revolution as was Magic. They changed the game. They played their positions in such a diff. manner than they had ever been played before. So even though they may not have been Michael, they had as much impact on the way the game is played.

Magic a 6' 9" Point??????? are you kidding. He took his idol, George Gervin, to a completely diff. level. (Gervin being one of the first tall guards that had a huge impact on the old ways of thinking... you cant be a guard, you are too tall). And his complete unselfishness and leadership made the Lakers. Then the guy plays CENTER when Kareem is hurt and scores forty against the sixers. GOOD LORD!

Bird. Controlled the flow of a game at a position that was not supposed to handle the ball that much. His movement without the ball, his passing, his superior intuition, made for a type of forward I doubt we see again. For God's sake he would lead the Celtics in rebounding and assists if he was not shooting well. He found some way to impact every important game.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Kev this is all opinion and supposition on my part. The only thing that matters in the end is the ring. And Bird HAD to be on the Celtics team or they would not have those championships... imo.

Again. This is from a person who absolutley hated Bird... From the depths of my soul. He was a trash talker, dirty (at the appropriate times), but so unique. Bird showed that a forward could control a game. Anytime the Celtics had to have something done the ball was in his hands. He was the Man on that team. Its so obvious to me.
Bird was a revolution as was Magic. They changed the game. They played their positions in such a diff. manner than they had ever been played before. So even though they may not have been Michael, they had as much impact on the way the game is played.

Magic a 6' 9" Point??????? are you kidding. He took his idol, George Gervin, to a completely diff. level. (Gervin being one of the first tall guards that had a huge impact on the old ways of thinking... you cant be a guard, you are too tall). And his complete unselfishness and leadership made the Lakers. Then the guy plays CENTER when Kareem is hurt and scores forty against the sixers. GOOD LORD!

Bird. Controlled the flow of a game at a position that was not supposed to handle the ball that much. His movement without the ball, his passing, his superior intuition, made for a type of forward I doubt we see again. For God's sake he would lead the Celtics in rebounding and assists if he was not shooting well. He found some way to impact every important game.

Pat...the facts I was referring to where the ones Chuck was stating about the changes in coaching and, in part, the role players involved. I agree with you on the fact that without Bird, the Celtics win nothing.

I doubt there is a bigger Larry Bird fan alive than me. I lived and died with the Celtics of the 80's and can honestly say that I have not watched a single NBA game, from start to finish, since LB retired.

To compare Larry and Magic to MJ is deceptive. Larry and Magic were the definition of TEAM players. I like MJ (he is a Tarheel ), but, IMO, he revolutionized the individual aspect of the game...and I mean that in a very negative context. His style of play has produced a generation of NBA players that are strictly interested in SELF...there is no team concept anymore.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by GPK

Pat...the facts I was referring to where the ones Chuck was stating about the changes in coaching and, in part, the role players involved. I agree with you on the fact that without Bird, the Celtics win nothing.

I doubt there is a bigger Larry Bird fan alive than me. I lived and died with the Celtics of the 80's and can honestly say that I have not watched a single NBA game, from start to finish, since LB retired.

To compare Larry and Magic to MJ is deceptive. Larry and Magic were the definition of TEAM players. I like MJ (he is a Tarheel ), but, IMO, he revolutionized the individual aspect of the game...and I mean that in a very negative context. His style of play has produced a generation of NBA players that are strictly interested in SELF...there is no team concept anymore.

ten-pier MR GPK. And here I thought golf was the only sports subject you knew anything about!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by GPK

To compare Larry and Magic to MJ is deceptive. Larry and Magic were the definition of TEAM players. I like MJ (he is a Tarheel ), but, IMO, he revolutionized the individual aspect of the game...and I mean that in a very negative context. His style of play has produced a generation of NBA players that are strictly interested in SELF...there is no team concept anymore.

Actually MJ might be the best example of a team player versus an individual because until he was surrounded by a core group of players that complimented his style (and were pretty good) he never went anywhere in the playoffs. Great as they were, Magic and Bird were drafted into pretty good situations. MJ and Lebron weren't.

Kev actually there was this thing called the ABA that predated MJ with that style of play along with the police blotter style of post game play...

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Actually MJ might be the best example of a team player versus an individual because until he was surrounded by a core group of players that complimented his style (and were pretty good) he never went anywhere in the playoffs. Great as they were, Magic and Bird were drafted into pretty good situations. MJ and Lebron weren't.

Kev actually there was this thing called the ABA that predated MJ with that style of play along with the police blotter style of post game play...

Chuck, I know all about the ABA. My parents used to live within 5 minutes walking distance of where the Virginia Squires used to play. They had the privelage of watching Dr. J play...before he was Dr. J

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by GPK

Chuck, I know all about the ABA. My parents used to live within 5 minutes walking distance of where the Virginia Squires used to play. They had the privelage of watching Dr. J play...before he was Dr. J

The best thing about the ABA was the hairdoos

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The best thing about the ABA was the hairdoos

Yeah...Dr. J had a fro bigger than the basketball itself.

[Mortimer]

My God.






It still lives.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The best thing about the ABA was the hairdoos

How many ABA games did you go to? There were some great players.

AHHH lets see... the NBA 3 point shot came from where?

NBA was smart gobbling the ABA up.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Actually MJ might be the best example of a team player versus an individual because until he was surrounded by a core group of players that complimented his style (and were pretty good) he never went anywhere in the playoffs. Great as they were, Magic and Bird were drafted into pretty good situations. MJ and Lebron weren't.

Kev actually there was this thing called the ABA that predated MJ with that style of play along with the police blotter style of post game play...

Chuck, early in his career, I think MJ was a very individualistic, simply because he had to be. Not until later in his career did he begin to make his teammates better...because he finally had teammates that could play. But, IMO, by then, he had stamped himself a great individual player and the kids growing up watching him wanted the same type of star power and sensed that the individual style of play vs. the team style of play was the way to achieve that. Had those same kids payed more attention to the TEAM aspect of his game later in his career, I have to believe that the NBA would not be in the sad state of affairs that it is today.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Actually MJ might be the best example of a team player versus an individual because until he was surrounded by a core group of players that complimented his style (and were pretty good) he never went anywhere in the playoffs. Great as they were, Magic and Bird were drafted into pretty good situations. MJ and Lebron weren't.

Kev actually there was this thing called the ABA that predated MJ with that style of play along with the police blotter style of post game play...

And it took Jordan four tries to crack the Pistons in the playoffs. You've got to have some people to play with. I'm a Detroit native but I want this to go seven games and I will not be disappointed to see Cleve win. Should be a hecl of a game 5.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Kev this is all opinion and supposition on my part. The only thing that matters in the end is the ring.

Too simplistic of an argument.

[EpBurns]

I know I am jumping in this argument late but I will tell you based on my theory to be a great player in the NBA you have to make the players around you better and to me Magic, Larry and MJ all made the players around them better, that is why I dislike Kobe so much he doesnt make anyone around him better only himself, Lebron makes the players around him better in my opinion. The other night I never thought I would watch a player come close to being what Magic was like on the court but Lebron came close that is the first time since Magic retired that I have thought that about another NBA player.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Too simplistic of an argument.

What argument am I trying to make?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

What argument am I trying to make?

When comparing players that the only thing that matters is championships...

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

When comparing players that the only thing that matters is championships...

Actually it was teams with certain players.
So ya got me. Why I oughta...

I usually find it hard to agree with men that wear fake hair, and have a penchant for biting women in the butt, butt... Marv is right.

That was a superior athletic performance in the playoffs. About as good as it gets. The Manchild.
I think I would like this series to go two more games if Lebron is going to play like this every night.
That was really a fun game to watch.

Originally Posted by pgardn

I usually find it hard to agree with men that wear fake hair, and have a penchant for biting women in the butt, butt... Marv is right.

That was a superior athletic performance in the playoffs. About as good as it gets. The Manchild.
I think I would like this series to go two more games if Lebron is going to play like this every night.
That was really a fun game to watch.

ESPN stole my line.
Completely original... Never uttered before.

What a great day for basketball talk. Kobe has a mental breakdown, and Lebron takes over the world.