Va Derby

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

WLAL will love the CCA Oaks distance....very live filly in that spot....as for Showing Up...that is actually surprising to me because it is $1 million that he would be 4-5 in....How is that not attractive?...That is as rare a scenario that you'll get as an owner/trainer....odds-on fave for $1 million on a course where your horse just dominated a solid field of turf 3yos....Wow, I can't believe they'd pass unless something was ailing the horse.....Maybe they are trying to keep him fresh for a race like the Gr. I Secretariat at ARL next month.....That would be the only logical reason I would see them forgoing the Virginia Derby proposition.....They might be out-smarting themselves here.....

I wouldn't go believing anything mp3 writes here as fact without a link to the story. I just sent an e-mail to find out the real story. The plan was still to run him last I heard. He didn't work this weekend because he didn't need the work. It is completely possible they are passing but Tagg is not one to make up his mind almost 2 weeks before the race. Remember Tagg ran him back in 2 weeks for the derby so 3 weeks is not a big deal. This is a 10F race at Colonial though so maybe he thinks it is just too much. This horse has a 4yr old season ahead of him so I guess they might want to be careful with him.

[blackthroatedwind]

http://www.drf.com/news/article/76158.html



It is towards the bottom of the article.

Sounds like he isn't running in the Virginia Derby or the Travers. Tough to go back and forth between turf and dirt.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

http://www.drf.com/news/article/76158.html



It is towards the bottom of the article.

Sounds like he isn't running in the Virginia Derby or the Travers. Tough to go back and forth between turf and dirt.

Thanks. My friend said he saw this coming. Tagg is just too conservative in my opinion. The problem is the horse ran huge off a 7 week layoff from the derby and now he thinks the horse needs that much time between all races. Tagg is very lucky he has good owners because most owners wouldn't turn down an easy $600,000.

[blackthroatedwind]

I think the owners are lucky to have a great trainer like Barclay Tagg.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I think the owners are lucky to have a great trainer like Barclay Tagg.

They think so too considering they could have anyone they want. The knock on Tagg with this horse is that he ran him on two weeks for the derby against a horse that nobody really thought he had a chance against, in Barbaro, but now with a $5M bonus (which I doubt he would get) he doesn't want to run him off 3 weeks rest. The fact is the owners are incredible people because 95% of owners would tell the trainer to take a shot at the $5M.

I do know this, Tagg got him for $60K and considering he will earn millions in his career, Tagg knows a hell of a lot more than me, so I am sure the rest is good for the horse.

Originally Posted by boldruler

They think so too considering they could have anyone they want. The knock on Tagg with this horse is that he ran him on two weeks for the derby against a horse that nobody really thought he had a chance against, in Barbaro, but now with a $5M bonus (which I doubt he would get) he doesn't want to run him off 3 weeks rest. The fact is the owners are incredible people because 95% of owners would tell the trainer to take a shot at the $5M.

I do know this, Tagg got him for $60K and considering he will earn millions in his career, Tagg knows a hell of a lot more than me, so I am sure the rest is good for the horse.

Since you are such a stickler on facts and apologies I would think that you owe MP3 a pretty good one. He also made you look pretty silly beating you to posting the scoop when for months you have railed on about your "friend" and all the great info you have. By the way the Startegic Mission of Taggs you touted so highly, Stratonic was well beaten in a cheap maiden claimer this past weekend, in case you missed that.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Since you are such a stickler on facts and apologies I would think that you owe MP3 a pretty good one. He also made you look pretty silly beating you to posting the scoop when for months you have railed on about your "friend" and all the great info you have. By the way the Startegic Mission of Taggs you touted so highly, Stratonic was well beaten in a cheap maiden claimer this past weekend, in case you missed that.

Sorry about beating me to the scoop, believe it or not I have a real job. I don't obsess over a chat site like some people. He read a drf article that said he unlikely to go. Maybe I should read the drf every free minute of my time and run to post on "your" website. You see I have a job so that I will be able to buy my own horses one day.

As for Stratonic I saw the replay but didn't get back from the Mets game in time to watch it live. He looked really good, almost hung on for second. Tagg owns that horse so I was hoping he would get him a winner but he is in a maiden claimer for a reason.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I think the owners are lucky to have a great trainer like Barclay Tagg.

I agree. And I would wager that he knows a lot more about what the horse needs now that Bold or his friend. I think if I had to ask one of the three for some input I would "lean" towards Tagg.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I think the owners are lucky to have a great trainer like Barclay Tagg.

I do too. Tagg knows what he is doing. Showing Up will win next time out. Of course, I think the Jacksons are very good horsemen also which is why they picked talented trainers with smaller strings of horses in Matz and Tagg.

Ok, here is the story.

Showing Up is still possible for next weekend, but not likely. SU is done racing on the dirt though, which I did not know. He is likely going to Arlington for his next race, I guess that would be the Secretariat, and then he likely will make a start in the Turf Invitational, not sure where that is, and target the BC Turf or BC Mile.


Only 3 more races this year I guess, but they plan on bringing him back next year. There is likely a race in Europe in his future next year. Interesting.

Originally Posted by boldruler

Ok, here is the story.

Showing Up is still possible for next weekend, but not likely. SU is done racing on the dirt though, which I did not know. He is likely going to Arlington for his next race, I guess that would be the Secretariat, and then he likely will make a start in the Turf Invitational, not sure where that is, and target the BC Turf or BC Mile.


Only 3 more races this year I guess, but they plan on bringing him back next year. There is likely a race in Europe in his future next year. Interesting.

Turf Invitational is at belmont Ruler. And I think the grass decision is quite wise. Horses stay sounder on the grass and race longer. Sounds like a very good plan to me. Go for the grade one agaisnt his own generation at Arlington, then use the toughest prep for the BC(Turf Inv).

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by boldruler

Ok, here is the story.

Showing Up is still possible for next weekend, but not likely. SU is done racing on the dirt though, which I did not know. He is likely going to Arlington for his next race, I guess that would be the Secretariat, and then he likely will make a start in the Turf Invitational, not sure where that is, and target the BC Turf or BC Mile.


Only 3 more races this year I guess, but they plan on bringing him back next year. There is likely a race in Europe in his future next year. Interesting.

WHERE IS THE MFING LINK FOR THIS INFO!!!!!! SHOW IT TO ME!!!! NOW!!!

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

http://www.drf.com/news/article/76158.html



It is towards the bottom of the article.

Sounds like he isn't running in the Virginia Derby or the Travers. Tough to go back and forth between turf and dirt.

I agree...two different styles of racing and while allowance and claiming horses might can pull it off, it is a lot harder at the top level...they are even trained a bit different by most outfits...The Secretariat makes sense becasue I'm sure they see it as an opportunity for a great chance to win a Gr. I for the colt in a game where nothing is guaranteed..he could go wrong at any minute so I suppose connections want to chase a Gr. I while he is right...

Personally, I run for the $1 million pay day in what will be a weaker spot in the Va. Derby over the Secretariat - where he may have to face some Euros...but, they obviously would rather being 2-1 for the chance to win a Gr. I versus being odds-on for a $1 million in easier purse money...I can't blame them...money is obviously no concern to them since they've had two 3yos win $1 million+ races already this year....

Additionally, he is a Strategic Mission out of T.V. Commercial mare - so I assume that there strategy is to get as many Gr. Is under his belt as they possible can to enhance his stud value, which is a value that will alwasy have a low ceiling IMO with that pedigree.....He could do as much on the track as Skip Away and Silver Charm and still be regarded as subpar bloodstock in the breeding shed just like those two nice horses.....That is why I would chase the easier purse money with him right now while it presents itself and then tackle the big boys down the road - but I can defunately see their angle here.....

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Additionally, he is a Strategic Mission out of T.V. Commercial mare - so I assume that there strategy is to get as many Gr. Is under his belt as they possible can to enhance his stud value, which is a value that will alwasy have a low ceiling IMO with that pedigree.....He could do as much on the track as Skip Away and Silver Charm and still be regarded as subpar bloodstock in the breeding shed just like those two nice horses.....That is why I would chase the easier purse money with him right now while it presents itself and then tackle the big boys down the road - but I can defunately see their angle here.....

This I completely agree with. Without a Grade 1 on the dirt, and even then, it doesn't seem he will ever have significant stud value. Luckily, for the owners, this doesn't really matter.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

This I completely agree with. Without a Grade 1 on the dirt, and even then, it doesn't seem he will ever have significant stud value. Luckily, for the owners, this doesn't really matter.

Probably not significant, but the people I have spoken with said his ability to run on the dirt and turf make him an interesting horse. Throw in a few track records and a few grade/group 1's and they will have no problem filling his book, just not at a huge price.

I get the feeling he will be around for a few years though because the money they could make off him at stud is nothing to them, especially if Barbaro turns out ok. Barbaro is a cash register in the breeding shed. Showing Up could even be around at 5 if he stays on the grass. I hope so because the US needs a turf horse that we can ship over to Europe and win a big race.

Originally Posted by boldruler

Probably not significant, but the people I have spoken with said his ability to run on the dirt and turf make him an interesting horse. Throw in a few track records and a few grade/group 1's and they will have no problem filling his book, just not at a huge price.

I get the feeling he will be around for a few years though because the money they could make off him at stud is nothing to them, especially if Barbaro turns out ok. Barbaro is a cash register in the breeding shed. Showing Up could even be around at 5 if he stays on the grass. I hope so because the US needs a turf horse that we can ship over to Europe and win a big race.

He'll have to race fotr a few years if healthy because his stud value has such a short ceiling....hes really more valuable on the track.........

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

He'll have to race fotr a few years if healthy because his stud value has such a short ceiling....hes really more valuable on the track.........

He probably is. I plan on getting a mare to breed with him, but don't plan on paying his fee.

Originally Posted by boldruler

I wouldn't go believing anything mp3 writes here as fact without a link to the story. I just sent an e-mail to find out the real story. The plan was still to run him last I heard. He didn't work this weekend because he didn't need the work. It is completely possible they are passing but Tagg is not one to make up his mind almost 2 weeks before the race. Remember Tagg ran him back in 2 weeks for the derby so 3 weeks is not a big deal. This is a 10F race at Colonial though so maybe he thinks it is just too much. This horse has a 4yr old season ahead of him so I guess they might want to be careful with him.

Either that or the though that another grueling race in which they chase a lightning fast Kip Deville with Prado onboard rather than Hamilton has them taking another path. Smart move on their part if its true. I'd want no part of chasing Kip again with Prado onboard instead of the kid who opened up 17 lengths. YOu still really arent laboring under the delusion that if the kid only opened him up say by, a completely moronic 10 lengths as opposed to an incredibly moronic 17 lengths, that he was really going to beat Kip are you? I guess a lack of understanding of pace and energy expended would be expected by a guy not following the game real long.
Trust me, they want no part of Kip in that spot.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Either that or the though that another grueling race in which they chase a lightning fast Kip Deville with Prado onboard rather than Hamilton has them taking another path. Smart move on their part if its true. I'd want no part of chasing Kip again with Prado onboard instead of the kid who opened up 17 lengths. YOu still really arent laboring under the delusion that if the kid only opened him up say by, a completely moronic 10 lengths as opposed to an incredibly moronic 17 lengths, that he was really going to beat Kip are you? I guess a lack of understanding of pace and energy expended would be expected by a guy not following the game real long.
Trust me, they want no part of Kip in that spot.

I still can't help but think that this is one of those free-running horses that if you tried to kindly rate him that he would go very rank on you....I don't know, man...I've seen three of his races prior to Dutrow getting him and I'm just not sure if he will rate and still be effective...he is a free-running horses that wants it his own way....the jock usually is best served to just be a passenger - literrally and let the horse do his thing on these types...these kind of horses are rare but look at his past form...he likes to run like this....

I think any crafty attempt at Prado or anyone trying to strangle him down will have an adverse effect on his performance....just my opinion.....I say Dutrow sends him again and says "come and catch me if you can" - especially if Showing Up isn't in the field...I really do....And I also think that at least one rider will go afte him down the backstretch....these guys can't be dumb enough not to the second time around...fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me - the classic old cliche'