Strong Contender

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Dallas Stewart is among the best now?

Won the Oaks this year, and is a damn good trainer. 18% on the year, not too shabby in my opinion.

[SentToStud]

Money won and Eclipse Awards count too, last time I looked.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Sweetness

Won the Oaks this year, and is a damn good trainer. 18% on the year, not too shabby in my opinion.

He's an OK trainer who has probably underachieved with the stock he has gotten. I'm not knocking him but saying he is " one of the best " is absurd.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

He's an OK trainer who has probably underachieved with the stock he has gotten. I'm not knocking him but saying he is " one of the best " is absurd.

I think he is better than ok, and he hasn't really underachieved, but great trainers overachieve. Win the derby with a $17,000 purchase or do something like that. Pletcher is a great organizer and horseman but he seems to lack that little extra Lukas and Baffert had/have.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Hoisttheflag

I think he is better than ok, and he hasn't really underachieved, but great trainers overachieve. Win the derby with a $17,000 purchase or do something like that. Pletcher is a great organizer and horseman but he seems to lack that little extra Lukas and Baffert had/have.

I was referring to Dallas Stewart.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

He's an OK trainer who has probably underachieved with the stock he has gotten. I'm not knocking him but saying he is " one of the best " is absurd.

I agree and I personally like Dallas..............

[blackthroatedwind]

I personally like him as well.

But hey, some of my best friends are failures

Not that he is a failure by any means. But, a lot of my friends.....

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

He's an OK trainer who has probably underachieved with the stock he has gotten. I'm not knocking him but saying he is " one of the best " is absurd.

Okat let me ask you this what do you think of Shug McGaughey? Because no one has been blessed with more blue bloods then this man. Dallas is a hell of a guy, and a fine trainer.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Sweetness

Okat let me ask you this what do you think of Shug McGaughey? Because no one has been blessed with more blue bloods then this man. Dallas is a hell of a guy, and a fine trainer.

Shug? As fine a trainer as there has ever been...and unlike a lot of trainers ( without naming names )....he doesn't cheat. The guy was great even before training all those champions for the Phipps. Vanlandingham anyone?

As for Dallas being a " hell of a guy "...in my minimal interaction with him I couldn't agree more. " Fine trainer "? Debatable but I guess he's OK. However...please retract the " one of the best " comments. He isn't and has no results to back that up.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Shug? As fine a trainer as there has ever been...and unlike a lot of trainers ( without naming names )....he doesn't cheat. The guy was great even before training all those champions for the Phipps. Vanlandingham anyone?

As for Dallas being a " hell of a guy "...in my minimal interaction with him I couldn't agree more. " Fine trainer "? Debatable but I guess he's OK. However...please retract the " one of the best " comments. He isn't and has no results to back that up.

I actually said among the best, and would you disagree that Pletcher and McLaughlin aren't? Come on Kieran got that "classic" win. But while you bash Todd, with the flesh Shug gets, I would expect better results.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Sweetness

I actually said among the best, and would you disagree that Pletcher and McLaughlin aren't? Come on Kieran got that "classic" win. But while you bash Todd, with the flesh Shug gets, I would expect better results.

Shug has had remarkable results.

If you are going to continue to insist that Dallas Stewart is " among the best " I am taking my ball and going home. Just say you were overzealous and get it over with.

I like Kiaran, he is a great guy, and he does a very good job. Among the best? I don't even think he would agree with that. But he certainly gets the job done and I can imagine anyone would be more than happy if he was their trainer.

By the way, I never " bashed " Pletcher and never would.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Shug has had remarkable results.

If you are going to continue to insist that Dallas Stewart is " among the best " I am taking my ball and going home. Just say you were overzealous and get it over with.

I like Kiaran, he is a great guy, and he does a very good job. Among the best? I don't even think he would agree with that. But he certainly gets the job done and I can imagine anyone would be more than happy if he was their trainer.

Okay so who are among the best?

Originally Posted by Sweetness

I actually said among the best, and would you disagree that Pletcher and McLaughlin aren't? Come on Kieran got that "classic" win. But while you bash Todd, with the flesh Shug gets, I would expect better results.

Dallas is most definitely not among the best. Better results from Shug? Are you kidding me?
Well lets see, ahem, EIGHT CHAMPIONS!!!!! for starters(you defend dallas who has NONE), 2nd all time with Breeders Cup wins to only D wayne, Lord knows how many grade ones.
And hey, Blackthroat may get a kick out of this, on a fall day at Belmont Park
in 1993 Shug McGaughey won as many grade one races as Dallas Stewart has won in his career. Umm, are we about done with this argument now?

Originally Posted by Sweetness

Okat let me ask you this what do you think of Shug McGaughey? Because no one has been blessed with more blue bloods then this man. Dallas is a hell of a guy, and a fine trainer.

He doesnt win very often(dallas, not shug) at the highest level. He won the Oaks this year but seriously, he has 3 lifetime grade one wins, never has trained a champ, and has been on his own for 9 years now which is just not all that special when you consider the stock he has had. You trying to tell me that a guy who is on his own for 9 years and has 3 grade one wins and no champs with all those nice horses is a "great" trainer, geez, I don't get that at all.

And Shug is on of the sport's all time greats, and I agree with everything Blackthroat said about him.

Originally Posted by oracle80

He doesnt win very often(dallas, not shug) at the highest level. He won the Oaks this year but seriously, he has 3 lifetime grade one wins, never has trained a champ, and has been on his own for 9 years now which is just not all that special when you consider the stock he has had. You trying to tell me that a guy who is on his own for 9 years and has 3 grade one wins and no champs with all those nice horses is a "great" trainer, geez, I don't get that at all.

Never said he was great but was making the point that he was instumental in Lukas's success, ask D. Wayne. I think Shug has underachieved, because he is blessed year in and year out with the best flesh on the planet.

Originally Posted by Sweetness

Never said he was great but was making the point that he was instumental in Lukas's success, ask D. Wayne. I think Shug has underachieved, because he is blessed year in and year out with the best flesh on the planet.

Yeah hes underachieved with 8 champs, all those grade ones and Breeders Cup wins. That is just one of the most foolish comments I have ever heard, but I guess everyone has the right to a bad opinion.

Any of you guys who want a good laugh about this argument need to go to www.nyra.com and click on nyra publications, then on bios. When you click on Stewart and then click on champions he has trained the page is blank. The you click on Grade one wins and Nyra stakes wins and 3 horses pop up.
YOu click on Shugs and when you click on champs you get 8, and then when you click on grade one wins and NYra stakes winners, the page is so long that pops up that you actually have to scroll long and hard just to read them all. Its amazing, absolutely incredible.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Yeah hes underachieved with 8 champs, all those grade ones and Breeders Cup wins. That is just one of the most foolish comments I have ever heard, but I guess everyone has the right to a bad opinion.

Has he not been given the finest horse flesh year in and year out? I personally like Shug, but he should be training champs.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Sweetness

Never said he was great but was making the point that he was instumental in Lukas's success, ask D. Wayne. I think Shug has underachieved, because he is blessed year in and year out with the best flesh on the planet.

Honestly, you have now eclipsed your contention that Dallas Stewart is " among the best " with this nonsensical comment about the horses Shug gets annually. He gets next to NO horses bought at Private Auction. The great racemares from over ten years ago ( yes, believe it or not it's been ten years ) have been pretty unproductive producers.

The job he did with Easy Goer, who had an ankle that would have kept many trainers from getting him to the races, was spectacular. He won the Gotham, Wood, ran in all three TC races, won the Whitney, Travers, Woodward and JCGC before finishing second in the BC Classic. That is a campaign that is unheard of today. Yeah, he was a great horse, but Shug's job with him may be unparalleled in recent training times.

Personal Ensign broke down as a 2YO, and raced with screws in her leg, yet Shug managed and maintained her through two more undefeated seasons. Compared to today's superstar trainers, who seem to have flash in the pan after flash in the pan, this was another tremendous job.

Hell, even resurecting Storm Flag Flying into a very nice 4YO campaign two years ago was a tremendous job. Unlike so many other trainers, Shug actually brought her back from the dead. Most, these days, have a similar pattern of quick explosion followed by quicker disintegration....and NO resurrection.

Yes, Shug has gotten some very well bred horses in the past, and surely he couldn't have posted the AMAZING results he has without them, but he has absolutely delivered.