Strong Contender

Originally Posted by Sweetness

You are absolutely right, and I love Todd, but you are right. After showing twice he wants no part of two turns, they threw him to the wolves. I hope he gets a breather and we'll see him in the late season sprints. I think he would fit perfectly in a race like the Cigar Mile.

The great Todd Pletcher blew it with this horse. I really hope the owners pushed him into the derby because that race ruined that horse.

Originally Posted by Hoisttheflag

The great Todd Pletcher blew it with this horse. I really hope the owners pushed him into the derby because that race ruined that horse.

Without knowing for sure, I think they did. It's that Derby fever.

Originally Posted by Sweetness

Without knowing for sure, I think they did. It's that Derby fever.

Had to be the owners in my opinion but the Pletcher ass kissing on this site is ridiculous. Win a Classic race before we start making him out to be Lukas or Baffert.

Originally Posted by Hoisttheflag

Had to be the owners in my opinion but the Pletcher ass kissing on this site is ridiculous. Win a Classic race before we start making him out to be Lukas or Baffert.

With all due respect, he has run second twice, and the run he has been on in the last 5 years or so has been nothing short of remarkable. Pletcher's only been training for about 10 years, and I challenge you to find someone with a more influential 10 years. Look how long it took Bobby Frankel, or Neil Drysdale to get a classic win. Pletcher will get his, no doubt, but you can't say the man isn't an incredible trainer because he hasn't won a classic.

Originally Posted by Sweetness

With all due respect, he has run second twice, and the run he has been on in the last 5 years or so has been nothing short of remarkable. Pletcher's only been training for about 10 years, and I challenge you to find someone with a more influential 10 years. Look how long it took Bobby Frankel, or Neil Drysdale to get a classic win. Pletcher will get his, no doubt, but you can't say the man isn't an incredible trainer because he hasn't won a classic.

Pletcher has been in the business since he was a young guy. His dad is JJ Pletcher. Baffert and Lukas worked their way up. Pletcher is actually one of the Lukas guys but you already knew that.

[Danzig]

lukas worked his way up, baffert had a hand after starting as a QH trainer and pegram deciding to move into t'breds.
not sure why hoist seems so anti-pletcher, he learned from one of the best and has paid his dues as well. any successes he deserves, he's got a tremendous work ethic.
he doesn't have a classic win YET, but it will come.

Originally Posted by Danzig188

lukas worked his way up, baffert had a hand after starting as a QH trainer and pegram deciding to move into t'breds.
not sure why hoist seems so anti-pletcher, he learned from one of the best and has paid his dues as well. any successes he deserves, he's got a tremendous work ethic.
he doesn't have a classic win YET, but it will come.

Baffert was a jockey, you don't pay your dues better than that. I am not anti-pletcher, but you guys are like professional ass kissers. There are entire threads to how great he is because he won with a bunch of horses, one being 1-9. The guy continues to fail to win the big ones. 0 for 51 is not some coincidence. Calling him the modern day silver fox is nonsense.

Originally Posted by Hoisttheflag

Pletcher has been in the business since he was a young guy. His dad is JJ Pletcher. Baffert and Lukas worked their way up. Pletcher is actually one of the Lukas guys but you already knew that.

Yeah I knew that, but thanks teach for the lesson. He has been out on his own for 10 years. But while we are at it, any coincidence that during Lukas golden run, he had Pletcher, McLaughlin, Stewart, and so on and so on as his assistants. These guys are among the best now, so that must be noted.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Sweetness

Yeah I knew that, but thanks teach for the lesson. He has been out on his own for 10 years. But while we are at it, any coincidence that during Lukas golden run, he had Pletcher, McLaughlin, Stewart, and so on and so on as his assistants. These guys are among the best now, so that must be noted.

Dallas Stewart is among the best now?

Originally Posted by Sweetness

With all due respect, he has run second twice, and the run he has been on in the last 5 years or so has been nothing short of remarkable. Pletcher's only been training for about 10 years, and I challenge you to find someone with a more influential 10 years. Look how long it took Bobby Frankel, or Neil Drysdale to get a classic win. Pletcher will get his, no doubt, but you can't say the man isn't an incredible trainer because he hasn't won a classic.

With all duer respect ...

... the guy has trained nearly a thousand of the best-bred colts in the world ... and has yet to develop even one into a champion at classic distances.

He's the King Of The MSW Sprints ... and does very well with fillies ... but he hasn't developed a colt into a champion ... and ... until he does ... he doesn't deserve to be compared with any of the really good trainers.

I can't say he isn't an incredible trainer? Yes ... I can ...

... He isn't an incredible trainer.

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

With all duer respect ...

... the guy has trained nearly a thousand of the best-bred colts in the world ... and has yet to develop even one into a champion at classic distances.

He's the King Of The MSW Sprints ... and does very well with fillies ... but he hasn't developed a colt into a champion ... and ... until he does ... he doesn't deserve to be compared with any of the really good trainers.

I can't say he isn't an incredible trainer? Yes ... I can ...

... He isn't an incredible trainer.

This coming from the guy who said Mayan King, a listed stake winner at best will be HOY.

Originally Posted by Sweetness

This coming from the guy who said Mayan King, a listed stake winner at best will be HOY.

I thought you were leaving ...

... BUH-BYE !!!

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

With all duer respect ...

... the guy has trained nearly a thousand of the best-bred colts in the world ... and has yet to develop even one into a champion at classic distances.

He's the King Of The MSW Sprints ... and does very well with fillies ... but he hasn't developed a colt into a champion ... and ... until he does ... he doesn't deserve to be compared with any of the really good trainers.

I can't say he isn't an incredible trainer? Yes ... I can ...

... He isn't an incredible trainer.

Was Left Bank not champion older horse? Seemed like he did a pretty good job with him.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Hoisttheflag

Had to be the owners in my opinion but the Pletcher ass kissing on this site is ridiculous.

It is a bit over the top at times.

He's a very good trainer, and a great businessman who has managed to amass just about every thoroughbred running in the US, but the " Todd is so great " posts get a bit wearinsome at times.

I'm a horseplayer....I will only make money beating a trainer who seems to run the favorite in just about every race. Thus I find myself rooting for him about as often as Haley's Comet shows up.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

It is a bit over the top at times.

He's a very good trainer, and a great businessman who has managed to amass just about every thoroughbred running in the US, but the " Todd is so great " posts get a bit wearinsome at times.

I'm a horseplayer....I will only make money beating a trainer who seems to run the favorite in just about every race. Thus I find myself rooting for him about as often as Haley's Comet shows up.

Exactly. Pletcher is a very good trainer, might be great one day, but enough with the praise for a guy who wins with the top horse flesh. Win a classic too. Any classic.

Originally Posted by Hoisttheflag

Exactly. Pletcher is a very good trainer, might be great one day, but enough with the praise for a guy who wins with the top horse flesh. Win a classic too. Any classic.

So Breeders Cup races don't matter huh? I think too much empasis is placed on the "classics". they are 3 races during an entire year. Look at what he does during the year, it's impressive.

Originally Posted by Hoisttheflag

Exactly. Pletcher is a very good trainer, might be great one day, but enough with the praise for a guy who wins with the top horse flesh. Win a classic too. Any classic.

Since Shug is so good, how many classics since 1989? Oh and you make money betting Shug? Impossible.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Sweetness

Since Shug is so good, how many classics since 1989? Oh and you make money betting Shug? Impossible.

Actually three...not bad...but who's counting.

Originally Posted by Hoisttheflag

Had to be the owners in my opinion but the Pletcher ass kissing on this site is ridiculous. Win a Classic race before we start making him out to be Lukas or Baffert.

I have to agree with this statement...I like the dude and think he's one helluva horseman, but why all the priase?...With the horseflesh he gets year-in and year-out he arguably is just doing average with his stock...I'm not saying he's doing poorly, but give any other good horseman his stock and see how well they would do with it....It's not like he has two or three Classic victories...he didn't even win a BC race until 2004.....he's a good trainer - make no mistake about it....but to praise him for being a dynamite conditioner may be like Jor Torre for being a great baseball coach...you better be half decent when yoour owners surround you with the best talent in the game...the thing I respect about him is his political abilities...he has somehow lured in the Jones, Overbrook, Padua, the Melnyks, Coolmore, WinStar and many other top owners - which is amazing to me....If I was a big-time owner I would probably want to be the lone big fish in the pond but instead he has found a way to marry running of of these nice horses from different big-time operations without conflict of playing favorites, etc.....that is what I most admire about the guy to be honest...He wil win a classic and probably multiple Classics, but how couldn't you with that stock?

Leroy Jolley won Classics, Jack Van Berg won Classics, and Bill Turner won Classics.....just goes to show that anybody is dangerous with good horses....