Met Mile field?

[ARyan]

Originally Posted by philcski

Just as aside, as this is the Met Mile thread, I got a huge figure for the Westchester (what equates to a 114 Beyer), and this is even doing something I don't normally do- breaking out the route races as they were exceptionally fast all day. Once this was done, the other two mile races fell perfectly in line with the runners' capabilities and the Westchester remained fast.
Basically the figure indicated Sun King ran back to the '06 Met Mile, and Utopia was just better. Take it for what it's worth. I'm crossing my fingers it's a good number more for the sake of Sun King than my own wallet.

Wow. Thanks for the info Philcski. I am suprised you had the Westchester that fast, but some good info to use going into the Met Mile.

[blackthroatedwind]

I hear ya, and understand what you are saying, but what's interesting is that in a way you seem to be jacked up to point out truths about Street Sense in case he is being ridiculously praised like recent relatively undeserving TC race winners. He's pretty much not being overhyped. Nobody seems to be declaring him the next superhorse. He's a good horse, who ran well in a race where his trip worked out for him, and now has to prove he can duplicate his best races on a track other than Churchill Downs. However, it's not as though his races at other tracks are clunkers.

Aside from the fact that I have liked Street Sense for a long time it is nice to see him praised sanely and rationally. Perhaps after the disappointments of recent years people are holding their irrationality in check. Unfortunately, however, all hell may break loose in ten days.

[ARyan]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I hear ya, and understand what you are saying, but what's interesting is that in a way you seem to be jacked up to point out truths about Street Sense in case he is being ridiculously praised like recent relatively undeserving TC race winners. He's pretty much not being overhyped. Nobody seems to be declaring him the next superhorse. He's a good horse, who ran well in a race where his trip worked out for him, and now has to prove he can duplicate his best races on a track other than Churchill Downs. However, it's not as though his races at other tracks are clunkers.

Aside from the fact that I have liked Street Sense for a long time it is nice to see him praised sanely and rationally. Perhaps after the disappointments of recent years people are holding their irrationality in check. Unfortunately, however, all hell may break loose in ten days.

I agree, and here is a follow up question to what you are saying;

IF Street Sense does pull off a TC, will it be diminished because this crop is being labeled as less then steller?

Just curious...

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by ARyan

I agree, and here is a follow up question to what you are saying;

IF Street Sense does pull off a TC, will it be diminished because this crop is being labeled as less then steller?

Just curious...

Yes and no. It would also depend on how he accomplishes it.

Seattle Slew probably beat worse, or relatively similar horses, and wasn't criticized. Of course, he overcame Jean Cruget, which was an insane accomplishment in its own right.

Considering how elusive the TC has proved recently I am hesitant to knock anyone that does it now.....though I am relieved Smarty Jones didn't get it done.

But, maybe I'm just biased again, as I do really like Street Sense.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I hear ya, and understand what you are saying, but what's interesting is that in a way you seem to be jacked up to point out truths about Street Sense in case he is being ridiculously praised like recent relatively undeserving TC race winners. He's pretty much not being overhyped. Nobody seems to be declaring him the next superhorse. He's a good horse, who ran well in a race where his trip worked out for him, and now has to prove he can duplicate his best races on a track other than Churchill Downs. However, it's not as though his races at other tracks are clunkers.

Aside from the fact that I have liked Street Sense for a long time it is nice to see him praised sanely and rationally. Perhaps after the disappointments of recent years people are holding their irrationality in check. Unfortunately, however, all hell may break loose in ten days.

I'm glad you like him....and I'm not so sure the fact you've made money on him in the past doesn't have something to do with you liking him....as I've been very defensive in favor of horses who've done the same for me.

I can also be very wrong about this horse---as I'm basing my opinion of how he will run while wide and without a setup, on evidence that isn't nearly as solid as I'd like for it to be.

Liking a horse is one thing...and disliking a horse is one thing...but I take pride in making what I believe to be fair judgements when I analyze a race.

[ARyan]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I'm glad you like him....and I'm not so sure the fact you've made money on him in the past doesn't have something to do with you liking him....as I've been very defensive in favor of horses who've done the same for me.

I can also be very wrong about this horse---as I'm basing my opinion of how he will run while wide and without a setup, on evidence that isn't nearly as solid as I'd like for it to be.

Liking a horse is one thing...and disliking a horse is one thing...but I take pride in making what I believe to be fair judgements when I analyze a race.

From you, that is laughable from the evidence I can gather.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Ok....I like all the races you skipped. Did you know, that of the nine dirt races on the card, the biggest priced winner paid $8.20...and Street Sense was not only one of three horses to win while racing inside...but he was also won of three horses to win..who wasn't the post time favorite.

Race #1- 6/5 favorite breaking from post #1 wins. 3/1 2nd choice breaking from posts #3 makes the lead and finishes 2nd.

Race #2- 9/5 shot winner broke from post #1 and raced on the rail throughout.

Race #3- 6/5 favorite wins easily after making a sweeping 3-wide move. So far, three races...three favorites.

Race #4- 8/5 favorite gets loose on the lead, and goes wire-to-wire winning by 12+ lengths. 4 races 4 winning favorites.

Race #5- TURF

Race #6- 4/5 favorite wins with sweeping three wide turn move. 5 dirt races, 5 winning favorites....a few near the inside a few wide.

Race #7- 3/1 shot goes wire-to-wire. First non-favorite to win all day pays a whopping $8.20

Race #8- 3/1 winner (pays $8.00) breaking from post 2, splits horses, and wins with closing tactics.

Race #9- Turf

Race #10- Even money favorite wins with stalking tactics. 3-to-4 wide.

Race #11- Turf

Race #12- Tampa Derby, 6/5 shot Street Sense, one of the few post time favorites who doesn't win all day, wins saving ground all the way. He wins off the layoff, over the very demanding tampa surface...AGS had a prep over it, which is why he was 3/5.

Race #13- Turf

You had nine races....and the biggest winner all day long paid $8.20! Horses won from the inside, the outside, they won stalking, closing, a couple went wire-to-wire.

Was there a HUGE HUGE HUGE bias....or was it just a case of the best horses winning?

[ARyan]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Ok....I like all the races you skipped. Did you know, that of the nine dirt races on the card, the biggest priced winner paid $8.20...and Street Sense was not only one of three horses to win while racing inside...but he was also won of three horses to win..who wasn't the post time favorite.

Race #1- 6/5 favorite breaking from post #1 wins. 3/1 2nd choice breaking from posts #3 makes the lead and finishes 2nd.

Race #2- 9/5 shot winner broke from post #1 and raced on the rail throughout.

Race #3- 6/5 favorite wins easily after making a sweeping 3-wide move. So far, three races...three favorites.

Race #4- 8/5 favorite gets loose on the lead, and goes wire-to-wire winning by 12+ lengths. 4 races 4 winning favorites.

Race #5- TURF

Race #6- 4/5 favorite wins with sweeping three wide turn move. 5 dirt races, 5 winning favorites....a few near the inside a few wide.

Race #7- 3/1 shot goes wire-to-wire. First non-favorite to win all day pays a whopping $8.20

Race #8- 3/1 winner (pays $8.00) breaking from post 2, splits horses, and wins with closing tactics.

Race #9- Turf

Race #10- Even money favorite wins with stalking tactics. 3-to-4 wide.

Race #11- Turf

Race #12- Tampa Derby, 6/5 shot Street Sense, one of the few post time favorites who doesn't win all day, wins saving ground all the way. He wins off the layoff, over the very demanding tampa surface...AGS had a prep over it, which is why he was 3/5.

Race #13- Turf

You had nine races....and the biggest winner all day long paid $8.20! Horses won from the inside, the outside, they won stalking, closing, a couple went wire-to-wire.

Was there a HUGE HUGE HUGE bias....or was it just a case of the best horses winning?

You are seriously unbelievable. Two horses won that day coming from the inside, that's it. Just because a horse breaks from the inside does not mean he came through on the rail to win, correct?

Who said anything about favorites? Was not this a discussion of if the rail was live or dead? Are you trying to baffle us with bull$hit, or are you really just that befuddled?

Seems to me that you even proved my point with you meandering explination of races. You never said anyone closed on the rail to win! So prove me wrong, where was the proof of a live rail, or at least a rail that was not dead?

You really showing what kind of muttonhead you truly are.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I believe the track was fair to all paths and styles. Simply, the best horses won race after race after race.

You said that there was a HUGE HUGE HUGE bias....there was no extreme bias on this day. Sometimes, the best horse wins.

Lighten up with the name calling...just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't mean you have the right to hurl insults at them for it.....but hey, we all know I'm above name calling.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by ARyan

You are seriously unbelievable. Two horses won that day coming from the inside, that's it. Just because a horse breaks from the inside does not mean he came through on the rail to win, correct?

Who said anything about favorites? Was not this a discussion of if the rail was live or dead? Are you trying to baffle us with bull$hit, or are you really just that befuddled?

Seems to me that you even proved my point with you meandering explination of races. You never said anyone closed on the rail to win! So prove me wrong, where was the proof of a live rail, or at least a rail that was not dead?

You really showing what kind of muttonhead you truly are.

Whoa man! How about stepping down off your high horse. I like a lively exchange of views on racing, and by all means defend your opinions, but lets not turn it in to a street fight.

Like Michael Corleone said "It's not personal Sonny, it's strictly racing."