Rags to Riches/Belmont try?

Cannon Shell · #1 05-08-2007, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Yeah, broodmare value is rather moot cause of her ownership...what to lose? When you have a champion, the last thing you want is a bad beating! A filly can beat the boys, Lady's Secret and others proved that, but if it was my horse...I'd pick a better spot! True, if she wins, she makes history but it's a huge gamble imo!

I think that this is a pretty weak group of colts and very few have breeding that suggests that they will relish the distance. She has enough speed to get the right trip and will catch the best colts coming off of 2 hard efforts and coming back on short rest. If she loses then she can resume beating up on fillies in the Test/Alabama. Plus Pletcher will make his other owners happy by getting Octave a grade 1 win in the Acorn or Mother Goose without having to mess with Rags.

AeWingnut · #2 05-08-2007, 05:05 PM

Silverbulletday

somerfrost · #3 05-08-2007, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

Silverbulletday

Exactly...Silverbulletday was considered equal to or superior to the 3yo colts, she tried the 1999 Belmont went off at 5-1 and finished a tired 7th! She had a good turn of speed and set the pace without being challenged...

Thoroughbred Fan · #4 05-08-2007, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Exactly...Silverbulletday was considered equal to or superior to the 3yo colts, she tried the 1999 Belmont went off at 5-1 and finished a tired 7th! She had a good turn of speed and set the pace without being challenged...

That has nothing to do with how RTR might run.

NTamm1215 · #5 05-08-2007, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Exactly...Silverbulletday was considered equal to or superior to the 3yo colts, she tried the 1999 Belmont went off at 5-1 and finished a tired 7th! She had a good turn of speed and set the pace without being challenged...

Breeding wise it is hard to imagine Silverbulletday was better suited to the Belmont than Rags to Riches.

Silverbulletday, while an extremely nice filly, beat up on a lot of subpar fillies in the spring of '99. In the Belmont that year there was a pretty decent cast of characters, including Charismatic bidding for the Triple Crown. That was a fast running of the race and clearly Silverbulletday wanted no part of 1 1/2 miles.

NT

somerfrost · #6 05-08-2007, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Breeding wise it is hard to imagine Silverbulletday was better suited to the Belmont than Rags to Riches.

Silverbulletday, while an extremely nice filly, beat up on a lot of subpar fillies in the spring of '99. In the Belmont that year there was a pretty decent cast of characters, including Charismatic bidding for the Triple Crown. That was a fast running of the race and clearly Silverbulletday wanted no part of 1 1/2 miles.

NT

Silverbulletday was bred to get a distance though...Silver Deputy out of Rokeby Rose, she the daughter of Tom Rolfe (C,P) and he the son of Ribot (C,P), SBD's DP=6-1-9-0-6, DI=1.10, CD=0.05, that screams distance/stamina!

Cannon Shell · #7 05-08-2007, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Silverbulletday was bred to get a distance though...Silver Deputy out of Rokeby Rose, she the daughter of Tom Rolfe (C,P) and he the son of Ribot (C,P), SBD's DP=6-1-9-0-6, DI=1.10, CD=0.05, that screams distance/stamina!

Silver Deputy is not a 1 1/2 sire
awd of 17 crops 6.82 furlongs

paisjpq · #8 05-08-2007, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Silver Deputy is not a 1 1/2 sire
awd of 17 crops 6.82 furlongs

I was just going to point this out....

somerfrost · #9 05-08-2007, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Silver Deputy is not a 1 1/2 sire
awd of 17 crops 6.82 furlongs

I agree with that, but again...I'm one who believes that a horse gets stamina MAINLY through the dam...and that dam side is pretty solid...when was the last time you saw a top horse with six points in Professional catagory?

somerfrost · #10 05-08-2007, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Silver Deputy is not a 1 1/2 sire
awd of 17 crops 6.82 furlongs

Roman has Silver Deputy's AWD at 7.85....

Cannon Shell · #11 05-08-2007, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Exactly...Silverbulletday was considered equal to or superior to the 3yo colts, she tried the 1999 Belmont went off at 5-1 and finished a tired 7th! She had a good turn of speed and set the pace without being challenged...

How did it hurt her?

somerfrost · #12 05-08-2007, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

How did it hurt her?

I don't know, you'd have to ask her! Seriously though, I think SBD was a good example of a filly that many thought was better than the colts (Charismatic was not that highly regarded going into the Derby) so her 7th place finish is an example of a top filly going against colts. I agree the breeding is different (SBD vs Rags), but the Belmont has a history of favoring speed types.

ateamstupid · #13 05-08-2007, 05:38 PM

The question still hasn't been answered of where a better spot to try colts would be.

Cannon Shell · #14 05-08-2007, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

The question still hasn't been answered of where a better spot to try colts would be.

Ohio Derby

Cannon Shell · #15 05-08-2007, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I don't know, you'd have to ask her! Seriously though, I think SBD was a good example of a filly that many thought was better than the colts (Charismatic was not that highly regarded going into the Derby) so her 7th place finish is an example of a top filly going against colts. I agree the breeding is different (SBD vs Rags), but the Belmont has a history of favoring speed types.

I know what you are saying but it would make a great storyline if SS loses the Preakness or even if he wins, it adds to the intrigue.

horseofcourse · #16 05-08-2007, 05:41 PM

All I know is if Street Sense beats Hard Spun in the Preakness in a very close race, and both of those show up in the Belmont with Rags to Riches that would be one of the greatest shows horse racing has ever put on.

ELA · #17 05-08-2007, 05:25 PM

If you have a filly and want to try and tackle the colts -- the sooner the better, before the boys mature. I think broodmare value here is completely irrelevant -- she is not for sale, will never be, and her foal will not be for sale. Never say never, but the only thing that will change that is a complete crash of Coolmore, or if they look to take on outside partners, money, etc. and decide to put something through the ring. They wouldn't have to do that, but I guess they could.

As far as her pedigree "suggests" and her being by a Belmont winner, out of a mare who also produced a Belmont winner -- well, I forget the specifics, but two relatively famous quotes stick out in my mind. First, was the one that said "Mrs. Dempsey had nine sons and only one was a boxer" or something like that, LOL. Maybe it was Jack Johnson, I don't remember. And the second one was from my least favorite fighter Mike Tyson" -- he said "everyone has a plan, until they get hit"

Sure, they have nothing to lose, but that doesn't mean she's gonna win or even be competitive.

Eric

Skip away · #18 05-08-2007, 05:06 PM

Exactly Canon, but Todd wont run her in the Test, too short for her. Her only race this summer after the Belmont will be the Alabama. Then she runs once at Belmont, most likely against the fillies, then its on to Monmouth for the BC, again most likely in the filly & mare race.

Thoroughbred Fan · #19 05-08-2007, 05:20 PM

Somer stop being such a wuss. It seems racing can't make anyone happy. If horses dodge one another, we cry about not getting to see the matchups we want. Then ,if someone does something "sporting" (good word for it Cannon)you're already calling them dumb for trying.

She can clearly beat the fillies without a top effort. Racing doesn't need another filly who picks her spots to retire with a nearly pristine record (Azeri, Ashado, etc), they need something over the top. A big G1 win by a filly over males would be a huge boost to the sport. Either way, if she runs, I'll actually be rooting for Pletcher. I can't believe I just said that.

somerfrost · #20 05-08-2007, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thoroughbred Fan

Somer stop being such a wuss. It seems racing can't make anyone happy. If horses dodge one another, we cry about not getting to see the matchups we want. Then ,if someone does something "sporting" (good word for it Cannon)you're already calling them dumb for trying.

She can clearly beat the fillies without a top effort. Racing doesn't need another filly who picks her spots to retire with a nearly pristine record (Azeri, Ashado, etc), they need something over the top. A big G1 win by a filly over males would be a huge boost to the sport. Either way, if she runs, I'll actually be rooting for Pletcher. I can't believe I just said that.

Who are you to call me names? I'm pointing out the facts and I'm every bit as much entitled to state my opinion as you or anyone else...I never called Pletcher "dumb", you don't win as many races as he has and be dumb, I merely stated my damn opinion and asked if maybe he's getting despirate for a classic win. I presented historical facts and even the PF's which indicate why he IS considering the race! Just cause I don't agree with your point of view, you call me a wuss...back at you, wimp!