What myths can be put to rest?

somerfrost · #1 05-06-2007, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Well... one thing I WILL watch for is the horses coming over last minute from Keeneland. Pletcher didn't have a real final work over Churchill's surface with any of his horses (besides Sam P., right?)

Good point, in the past, many trainers preferred to stay at Keeneland where it was a bit quieter and prepare for the Derby. Now, with the poly surface, things will probably change. It use to be something to look at...when a horse got to the track and whether he/she worked over it, then along came DWL and we heard "D Wayne off the plane" as he and others shipped in race day and won stakes all over the country. Poly is the future I suspect but many have pointed out that since a horse moves over it easier, they don't get the stamina (and possibly two year olds don't get the muscle/bone development) that horses working on dirt do. Carl had Street Sense at CD and it certainly didn't hurt. I will watch to see when he ships to Pimlico.
Regarding the angles, as Skippy said...they are helpful when used properly. I used them as I always do and still ended up with the winner as one of two horses I bet, last year I had Barbaro despite them...they are considerations/information not absolutes...a good horse can overcome trends, a great horse will overcome most anything. Saying Curlin disproved anything is ridicious, the 5LT race and 2yo race angles say "no horse has won"...Curlin didn't win...end of discussion! In fact he wasn't a serious factor. Yes, he had a rough trip...every year we hear from all the losers how rough a trip they had...it's part of the race!

Pedigree Ann · #2 05-06-2007, 12:44 PM

Street Sense was prepared the old-fashioned way. He raced from July to the start of November (end of October? I forget the exact date), then got the winter off. He didn't run again until mid-March, had plenty of time to grow up and develop into his frame. Secretariat had exactly the same sort of preparation, although he fit 3 races in before the Derby, not 2 -today's schedules would make a suitable 3 at 2-week intervals hard to find.

The thing he DIDN'T do was continue racing once every 5-6 weeks through the winter, which has become commonplace. A young horse who is continutally in race-training for 9 months will go off form or get injured at some point, unless it is Jim French, who ran his worst race off a 4-week rest. But Jimbo was a throwback, not a soft-boned Storm Cat descendent.

skippy3481 · #3 05-06-2007, 12:51 PM

Yes, god i understand that about hard spun, in fact as i've stated several times, hard spun ran a hell of a race. However with 20 horses entered you have to find a way to eliminate some of them. This was one way i eliminated them. And last time i checked hard spun didn't win.

cassie · #4 05-06-2007, 12:59 PM

how much did the drug testing beforehand affect the pletcher, oneil ;asmussen horses?

Danzig · #5 05-06-2007, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassie

how much did the drug testing beforehand affect the pletcher, oneil ;asmussen horses?

all horses passed the test. and it was a surprise test, that ought to put that baby to rest.

somerfrost · #6 05-06-2007, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassie

how much did the drug testing beforehand affect the pletcher, oneil ;asmussen horses?

Since it was a surprise and there were no positives I'm not sure why the question??

cassie · #7 05-06-2007, 01:06 PM

how do you know it really was a surprise?

somerfrost · #8 05-06-2007, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassie

how do you know it really was a surprise?

Yeah, maybe someone was on that grassy knoll, and those alien abductions...

Danzig · #9 05-06-2007, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassie

how do you know it really was a surprise?

well, by the same token, how do YOU know it wasn't? such logic, you've swayed me!

GenuineRisk · #10 05-06-2007, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Street Sense was prepared the old-fashioned way. He raced from July to the start of November (end of October? I forget the exact date), then got the winter off.

That's a really interesting observation- I've read other articles discussing the year-round racing schedule and how it likely contributes to injuries because horses are in training year-round. The argument being a few months off gives minor injuries time to heal on their own before they become big ones. And vacations are good for most of us, mentally, I think.

Danzig · #11 05-06-2007, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

That's a really interesting observation- I've read other articles discussing the year-round racing schedule and how it likely contributes to injuries because horses are in training year-round. The argument being a few months off gives minor injuries time to heal on their own before they become big ones. And vacations are good for most of us, mentally, I think.

a lot of people have made the argument about wintering....wonder how many people realize that man o wars first start at three was the preakness?

Pedigree Ann · #12 05-06-2007, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

a lot of people have made the argument about wintering....wonder how many people realize that man o wars first start at three was the preakness?

Of course, in 1920 the Preakness wasn't a top race. A nice race to win, like the Haskell, but not a classic by any means. It wasn't even a scale weights race until 1924 - Man o' War carried 126 to Upset's 122 and Wildair's 114.

Danzig · #13 05-06-2007, 06:13 PM

right...but my point was that he didn't make his first start til may....of course these days, if a trainer attempts to do something like that, he gets roasted. but then again, once the racing started in may, about 10 starts in the year....

Pedigree Ann · #14 05-07-2007, 02:31 PM

Actually, the Aussies still do it this way to some extent. The top horses race in September and October every week or two weeks leading up to the Cox Plate and Melbourne Cup carnival (ends first week of November), are 'spelled' for a couple of months, then start to gear up for the Sydney Easter Carnival, when they will race every week (or less!) again. Then another spell, until it is time to start gearing up for the spring in Melbourne again.

boswd · #15 05-07-2007, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Of course, in 1920 the Preakness wasn't a top race. A nice race to win, like the Haskell, but not a classic by any means. It wasn't even a scale weights race until 1924 - Man o' War carried 126 to Upset's 122 and Wildair's 114.

Ummm not true, in fact it was the Derby itself that did not carry the prestige. In those days of Man O' War, there really wasn't a Triple Crown persay, but the top races for 3 yrs Old were The Travers, The Preakness and the Belmont. The Preakness was a big race back then and was bigger than the Ky Derby.

Hickory Hill Hoff · #16 05-07-2007, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boswd

Ummm not true, in fact it was the Derby itself that did not carry the prestige. In those days of Man O' War, there really wasn't a Triple Crown persay, but the top races for 3 yrs Old were The Travers, The Preakness and the Belmont. The Preakness was a big race back then and was bigger than the Ky Derby.

Nice to hear from you

the "valley" crew says hi!
Looking forward to see you @ the Spa.

brianwspencer · #17 05-06-2007, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

That's a really interesting observation- I've read other articles discussing the year-round racing schedule and how it likely contributes to injuries because horses are in training year-round. The argument being a few months off gives minor injuries time to heal on their own before they become big ones. And vacations are good for most of us, mentally, I think.

Perfect Drift's been getting winter vacations pretty much forever too, right?