Pletcher ... Same Old Story

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

But he did win the maiden race after the Derby

Was that a lock or what??? The man has become a legend at winning the booby prize. He did the same thing last year after failing (Yes Yes Yes won the 11th and paid $18)

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by philcski

Was that a lock or what??? The man has become a legend at winning the booby prize. He did the same thing last year after failing (Yes Yes Yes won the 11th and paid $18)

Let's see, he also won and ran second in the Oaks with two terrific fillies, 26 mil in purses and is on pace to shatter every training record, gets a new top client everyday. Yeah, what a bum!

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Revidere

Let's see, he also won and ran second in the Oaks with two terrific fillies, 26 mil in purses and is on pace to shatter every training record, gets a new top client everyday. Yeah, what a bum!

But has he won the Kentucky Derby, the Preakness, the Belmont?
How's he done in the BC?

Oh yeah, that's right... 2 for a million with the best stock in the world.

If I'm his clients, who ARE the top owners in the game- I want the big prize, not the booby prize he's becoming a champion of.

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by philcski

But has he won the Kentucky Derby, the Preakness, the Belmont?
How's he done in the BC?

Oh yeah, that's right... 2 for a million with the best stock in the world.

If I'm his clients, who ARE the top owners in the game- I want the big prize, not the booby prize he's becoming a champion of.

Since when are races like the Oaks, the Florida Derby, The Haskell, Turf Classic, Beldame, and Champagne booby prizes? 90 + stakes races won last year. Sounds like you need someone to blame for your lousy selections.

One last question: Would you take a win in any one of those races?

Thanks for playing.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Revidere

Since when are races like the Oaks, the Florida Derby, The Haskell, Turf Classic, Beldame, and Champagne booby prizes? 90 + stakes races won last year. Sounds like you need someone to blame for your lousy selections.

One last question: Would you take a win in any one of those races?

Thanks for playing.

he's the dan marino of racing right now. but, unlike dan, he has time to change that. i think he will eventually.

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by Danzig

he's the dan marino of racing right now. but, unlike dan, he has time to change that. i think he will eventually.

As a Colts fan, I'm glad you didn't say Peyton Manning, although until this February you would have been tempted. Look, no one knows more than Pletcher that 5 off the board and 0-19 is more than disappointing. One thing gets overlooked is that he was ableto get five to the race. Sometimes you need the horse. When you look at his clients, Winstar, Scatourcio, Padua, Tabor, they are not people who take kindly to sitting out the big ones. Just my two cents.

[fpsoxfan]

There is no question that there is something to be said about concentrating on one or two horses. It had to be mayhem for him in the weeks leading up to and Derby Day. If I'm Tabor I want him to give all his attention to my horse, but the reality of the situation is NOBODY....was beating Street Sense.
Also Tabor has been trusting Pletcher with his horses for many years. Pletcher just has not had a horse good enough to win this yet. This does not diminish his skills as a trainer. Look at Saratoga. It's the Premier racing meet in the country. He has blown away the competition. He will win the Derby several times before it's over. I'm saying all of this and I'm not even a big Pletcher fan, I just have a major respect for his training abilities.

Originally Posted by Revidere

Since when are races like the Oaks, the Florida Derby, The Haskell, Turf Classic, Beldame, and Champagne booby prizes? 90 + stakes races won last year. Sounds like you need someone to blame for your lousy selections.

One last question: Would you take a win in any one of those races?

Thanks for playing.

Which Pletcher assistant are you?

[Slewbopper]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Which Pletcher assistant are you?

Phil, he's the one that trained Pie O My...Go get your shine box

[Rupert Pupkin]

I have a question for you guys. If Pletcher trained his Derby horses differently this year, which Pletcher horse would have beaten Street Sense in the Derby? I don't think any of them. Street Sense ran huge in the Derby. I don't think any of Pletcher's horses could have beaten him, no matter what Pletcher would have done.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Revidere

Since when are races like the Oaks, the Florida Derby, The Haskell, Turf Classic, Beldame, and Champagne booby prizes? 90 + stakes races won last year. Sounds like you need someone to blame for your lousy selections.

One last question: Would you take a win in any one of those races?

Thanks for playing.

You just don't get it.

First of all, I was AT every single race you list here except the Florida Derby. To me, winning these events are great accomplishments. But if I'm say, Tabor, and I've got my best horseflesh with him and he absolutely blows my horse's chances of winning the KENTUCKY Derby (the race that REALLY counts, not the damn Louisiana Derby) by trying to do it "his way", I'd be pretty angry.

Why are you so bitter that I question his methods in approaching the "big events"? He's got the best stock in the world, has the best riders in the world, the best assistants in the world, and runs his barn like a MACHINE. I have the utmost respect for him. But his record in the Derby and BC is no longer a "to be completed" point, it's a complete disaster.

For your information, I didn't pick a single Pletcher horse in the Derby top 3, or in last year's BC for that matter, so it had nothing to do with winning or losing money on him.

[Danzig]

altho it is indeed 'something' to win the oaks, there is nowhere (imo) near the pressure to win that race, as there is in the derby, preakness or belmont--or on bc day for that matter. he went 0-17 last winter on bc day. 0-5 last saturday, 1/4th the field, and not even in the MONEY.
it is baffling that pletcher wins so many graded races, but can't win the 'big ones'. but then again, maybe not so much.. tons of stock, and of course graded races from coast to coast, with fields that we generally feel are woefully inadequate for a graded race. strength in numbers i guess.

so yes, he wins grade ones, but there is still only ONE derby, one preakness, one belmont.

he'll win eventually, his seconds with bluegrass cat and invisible ink show promise.
but as he himself admitted, you have to win the big ones. as yet, he hasn't.

[2 Dollar Bill]

Steve B. went off on this subject [ very well I thought ] on Mondays show.

If Todd belives in the ""system""... well he should also belive in..."" If it aint broke dont fix it ""... So his ""system"" has produced How many derby winners ?.... Maybe its time to fix the system ? Its funny that when he's with Johnny V. @ the spa... all his horses are going off @ 8-5... as they should be..since he wins... Maybe im from the old school and belive that todays horses dont run enought. If a horse needs a 8 week layoff.. Thats fine..but your going to send him to the KD ? The crime is the betting public who put hard earned $$'s on a horse that wasnt ready to run ? Belive Me I know NOTHING about training a horse, I know Todd does, but is it in the best interest of the horse & betting public ?

[2 Dollar Bill]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I agree with a good deal of what you are saying, but honestly, if you bet CQ off a 8 week layoff in the Derby, you sort of have to blame yourself and not Todd. Let's remember he is at the mercy of his owners sometimes.

I didnt have any $$$ on CQ.... only AGS did put in my exacta's... but I do thank Todd for BlueGrass Cat last year and collected the $ 594.00 exacta with barbarbo.... He can win races, but I only wonder when these barns get sooooooo large, does the ""hands on "' training suffer ?