Post Position Draw List

jman5581 · #1 05-02-2007, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost

No it really isn't...any horse in any position can encounter problems that is true but the chances are greatly increased inside at CD...stand in the starting gate in post position #1 and look straight ahead...you'll see the inside rail...because of the track layout, inside horses will be squeezed and this will make for considerable bumping and many horses lose the race in the run to the first turn....the last winner from pp#1 was Ferdinand with the great Shoe aboard...he was a dead closer and the Shoe dropped him back and threaded the needle like only one of the all-time greats could do!

So, I see, no one else is capable of doing this ever again... fair enough.

somerfrost · #2 05-02-2007, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jman5581

So, I see, no one else is capable of doing this ever again... fair enough.

You have reading comprehension problems I see...don't attempt to belittle my intelligence by putting words in my mouth...there are no absolutes in racing, certainly not in the Derby...every one of the 20 horses entered CAN win, a horse CAN win from any post position...the point I make is that it has proven to be extremely difficult from the three inside positions...if Curlin is the horse some think he is, he will win from anywhere...hell, the way some talk, he would win starting from his stall!

jman5581 · #3 05-02-2007, 01:12 PM

So who said more winners have come from pp1 than any other?

jman5581 · #4 05-02-2007, 01:13 PM

Is this true, anyone know?

Cajungator26 · #5 05-02-2007, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jman5581

Is this true, anyone know?

I'll let you know in a second...

jman5581 · #6 05-02-2007, 01:19 PM

So pp2 is not such a bad post after all

jman5581 · #7 05-02-2007, 01:21 PM

1 either for that matter, I assume that's the 2nd highest overall?

ArlJim78 · #8 05-02-2007, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost

You have reading comprehension problems I see...don't attempt to belittle my intelligence by putting words in my mouth...there are no absolutes in racing, certainly not in the Derby...every one of the 20 horses entered CAN win, a horse CAN win from any post position...the point I make is that it has proven to be extremely difficult from the three inside positions...if Curlin is the horse some think he is, he will win from anywhere...hell, the way some talk, he would win starting from his stall!

There are others on the other extreme that talk like he has almost no chance whatsoever based simply on the fact he didn't race at 2.

somerfrost · #9 05-02-2007, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

There are others on the other extreme that talk like he has almost no chance whatsoever based simply on the fact he didn't race at 2.

Not me... I'm more concerned with only 3 races total and all grouped in a short period facing questionable competition. He has a chance but I'll not bet him...that's far from saying he has almost no chance.

ArlJim78 · #10 05-02-2007, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Not me... I'm more concerned with only 3 races total and all grouped in a short period facing questionable competition. He has a chance but I'll not bet him...that's far from saying he has almost no chance.

Fair enough, those are valid concerns.
But I have not seen the people claiming he is so good that he can win from anywhere.

jman5581 · #11 05-02-2007, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Not me... I'm more concerned with only 3 races total and all grouped in a short period facing questionable competition. He has a chance but I'll not bet him...that's far from saying he has almost no chance.

I'm not going to single Curlin or anything, but he's done all that he can do and is expected to do. If the fields were weak, he CRUSHED the weak fields by a combined 26 lengths or something.... he's going to run his hardest, I don't think a little interference is going to ruin his race. Even Barbaro stumbled and got bumped and won by 8 or whatever it was.

slotdirt · #12 05-02-2007, 01:58 PM

How is this post draw any different than any other post draw? Lots of horses get hung in miserable positions in major stakes races.

ArlJim78 · #13 05-02-2007, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

How is this post draw any different than any other post draw? Lots of horses get hung in miserable positions in major stakes races.

the number of horses is the difference. define miserable post position. usually that means nothing more than 10, 12, or 14 tops.

In the derby 1 and 20 in particular are beyond miserable.

somerfrost · #14 05-02-2007, 02:19 PM

Here is some more data on the inside post, I'm not sure when the track was reconfigured to squeeze the inside, maybe someone here knows the exact year but to answer a question...the starting gate was installed at CD in 1930, since then 8 horses have won the Derby from pp#1...they are:
War Admiral (1937)
Lawrin (1938)
Gallahadion (1940)
Citation (1948)
Hill Gale (1952)
Needles (1956)
Chateaugay (1963)
Ferdinand (1986)
I'm pretty sure that I read that the change was made after Chateaugay as it was news when Ferdinand won...pretty sure they said he was the first...and last.