Librarians, Keepers of the Liberty

Originally Posted by irishtrekker

Equal economic opportunity my ass.

Equal opportunity ... not equal results.

Scores of millions of Americans who were once dirt poor ... for example, my family ... are now quite wealthy ... because they took advantage of the opportunities available to them in this wonderful country.

The "rich" whom you refer to ... also were once poor ... as virtually no one came to this country already wealthy.

America is the land of incredible opportunity ... and only losers and bums bemoan their fate here.

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Equal opportunity ... not equal results.

America is the land of incredible opportunity ...

The first part of course is totally bovine residue. The second point is why most of us live here.

Cmon Bold one. ON THE WHOLE there is very clearly most opportunity for white males in the US. You cannot tell me with any sort of sincerety, that if one wanted to have the greatest opportunity in the US, one would want to be a black female. Replace black female with white male and bingo, ON THE WHOLE, the greatest opportunity. You may point to exceptions like Oprah etc..., but on the average, no one in this country with any sense kids themselves about this country as it stands.

So tell me... you would rather have been born a latino female because this would, on average, give you the greatest opportunity in this country? If not, what ethnic group and sex would most likely lead to opportunity?

Caucasian and male. Any other response is dreamworld. Dont try and lie to yourself and make things look hunky-dory. I am damn glad I am Caucasian and male. I sincerely believe if I was black and female, my opportunties would not have been as great ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL.

This is what has lead to some of the very devisive equal opportunity rules that screw lots of Caucasian kids trying to get into college. BE real here.

[my miss storm cat]

As an aside, it seems to me a slight discrepancy, Bold, that you would say... " I wouldn't wager that anyone named as a suspect is completely innocent" on the Fallon thread.

Originally Posted by pgardn

The first part of course is totally bovine residue. The second point is why most of us live here.

Cmon Bold one. ON THE WHOLE there is very clearly most opportunity for white males in the US. You cannot tell me with any sort of sincerety, that if one wanted to have the greatest opportunity in the US, one would want to be a black female. Replace black female with white male and bingo, ON THE WHOLE, the greatest opportunity. You may point to exceptions like Oprah etc..., but on the average, no one in this country with any sense kids themselves about this country as it stands.

So tell me... you would rather have been born a latino female because this would, on average, give you the greatest opportunity in this country? If not, what ethnic group and sex would most likely lead to opportunity?

Caucasian and male. Any other response is dreamworld. Dont try and lie to yourself and make things look hunky-dory. I am damn glad I am Caucasian and male. I sincerely believe if I was black and female, my opportunties would not have been as great ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL.

This is what has lead to some of the very devisive equal opportunity rules that screw lots of Caucasian kids trying to get into college. BE real here.

The main thing that has held back the economic progress of some African Americans is that they've bought into the concept of the Welfare State ... the idea that government will solve all their problems.

The African Americans who haven't bought into this ... who have been self-reliant ... and there are millions of them ... many of whom live right here on my upper class street ... have done spectacularly well.

And of course you completely overlook the amazing success of Asian immigrants in this country. The Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, Vietnamese, Indians, and Pakistanis are among the most successful and prosperous groups in this country.

You've made a foolish mistake by associating yourself with the hate-America leftist crowd. Get away from those losers ... and you'll be much happier and more successful yourself.

Think seriously about this ... and then act on it ... on this most appropriate day ... the day of Independence.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

The main thing that has held back the economic progress of some African Americans is that they've bought into the concept of the Welfare State ... the idea that government will solve all their problems.

The African Americans who haven't bought into this ... who have been self-reliant ... and there are millions of them ... many of whom live right here on my upper class street ... have done spectacularly well.

And of course you completely overlook the amazing success of Asian immigrants in the country. The Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, Vietnamese, Indians, and Pakistanis are among the most successful and prosperous groups in this country.

You've made a foolish mistake by associating yourself with the hate-America leftist crowd. Get away from those losers ... and you'll be much happier and more successful yourself.

Think seriously about this ... and then act on it ... on this most appropriate day ... the day of Independence.

Do you think the Palestinians have any legitimate grievances? Yes or No?

[Downthestretch55]

BB,
I disagree with you regarding "America haters".
It IS possible to LOVE America yet dispute the policies of the present administration...in fact, I consider it patriotic, even if you don't.

May I also add that I wasn't the one that initated discussion of "history".
The obvious error of your "arguements" is diversion from the topic, insults, and "broad brush" categorizations. Typical freshman debating tactics.

[irishtrekker]

DTS, amen to that! Not sure why constructively criticizing America is always equated with hating it...Seems like certain people have so little security in their beliefs that they can't actually reflect on any idea that dares challenge them because they have to be right! I think it's quite patriotic to love a country despite its flaws, and to commit yourself to doing something about them.

Check out this editorial today, which I think sums it up quite well: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...070300925.html

Happy Fourth, all.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by irishtrekker

DTS, amen to that! Not sure why constructively criticizing America is always equated with hating it...Seems like certain people have so little security in their beliefs that they can't actually reflect on any idea that dares challenge them because they have to be right! I think it's quite patriotic to love a country despite its flaws, and to commit yourself to doing something about them.

Check out this editorial today, which I think sums it up quite well: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...070300925.html

Happy Fourth, all.

Irish,
Thanks for the article. Worth reading for all that have their take on "patriotism".
As our nation celebrates her 230th, it remains that she becomes what she was inspired to become. The path was charted, the destination not yet realized.
Those that seek to quiet voices of patriots deny any and all possibilities, as they calmly wrap themselves in a flag that they hold so dear, and forget the words of freedom that it represents.
Happy 4th!
dTS

Originally Posted by irishtrekker

DTS, amen to that! Not sure why constructively criticizing America is always equated with hating it...Seems like certain people have so little security in their beliefs that they can't actually reflect on any idea that dares challenge them because they have to be right! I think it's quite patriotic to love a country despite its flaws, and to commit yourself to doing something about them.

Check out this editorial today, which I think sums it up quite well: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...070300925.html

Happy Fourth, all.

My advice to pgardn was to rid himself of America-hating leftist associations ... and I'll offer the same advice to you.

When you were a youngster ... your parents undoubtedly warned you about getting mixed up with the wrong crowd. As an adult ... you haven't followed that advice ... you've given your mind over to ultraleftist propagandists ... who also happen to be the world's biggest losers.

For the sake of your own future success and happiness ... you should rid yourself of these losers whose philosophy has been relegated to the garbage can of history.

By the way ... the article you cited is not an "editorial" ... it's an opinion column by the very type of leftist loser you should be shunning. If you want to learn more about history, economics, and politics ... try reading the opinion columns of Thomas Sowell ... whose archives can be found at townhall.com.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

BB,
I disagree with you regarding "America haters".
It IS possible to LOVE America yet dispute the policies of the present administration...in fact, I consider it patriotic, even if you don't.

May I also add that I wasn't the one that initated discussion of "history".
The obvious error of your "arguements" is diversion from the topic, insults, and "broad brush" categorizations. Typical freshman debating tactics.

You say you want to dispute the policies of this administration ... yet all you've talked about are the Spanish conquistadors and the colonial slave traders of centuries yore.

Neither you nor your ideological comrades have come up with a single instance of "stripping away of liberty" despite having had ample opportunity to do so.

When you have a cogent thought of your own ... we'll all be glad to hear it. But rote regurgitation of leftist agitprop is a complete bore.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

You say you want to dispute the policies of this administration ... yet all you've talked about are the Spanish conquistadors and the colonial slave traders of centuries yore.

Neither you nor your ideological comrades have come up with a single instance of "stripping away of liberty" despite having had ample opportunity to do so.

When you have a cogent thought of your own ... we'll all be glad to hear it. But rote regurgitation of leftist agitprop is a complete bore.

I'm an Arab-American. Here's a couple for you...



1. I have taken about 30 plane flights since 9/11. I have never gone through security without "additional processing.

2. My bookie got busted. Small time guy that about 10 of my friends, including Jews, Christians and even a freaking Bhuddist bet with. I a the smallest bettor of all of us. I am also the only one of the 10 of us to get a knock on my door.

3. My mother's telephone has been bugged and debugged three times.

I'm sure you'll concoct some solid as sh1t draped in (both) flag(s) explanation for this worthy of 30 seconds on Geraldo's or Ollie North's shows.

By the way, you never answered my very very simple question.... Do you believe the Palestinians have any valid grievances? Yes or No?

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

You say you want to dispute the policies of this administration ... yet all you've talked about are the Spanish conquistadors and the colonial slave traders of centuries yore.

Neither you nor your ideological comrades have come up with a single instance of "stripping away of liberty" despite having had ample opportunity to do so.

When you have a cogent thought of your own ... we'll all be glad to hear it. But rote regurgitation of leftist agitprop is a complete bore.

Bold Brooklynite,
As you go back and read through the ENTIRE thread, realize that I only talked about slavery or historical "facts" that you got wrong and needed correction. It wasn't the British that brought slavery to the Americas.
You have repeatedly taken this thread off topic.
I suggest that you go back to the very beginning of this thread, that I started. Read the article.
ALA means American Library Association (not ACLU).

Pay very careful attention to the words of Thomas Paine, "Ye that dare not only the tyranny but the tyrant, stand forth!"

If you label those words as "pinko" or "leftist", you must have studied at the Spiro Agnew School of Right-Speak. Label the opposition all you want.
Make up names, but somehow, no matter how loudly you yell, your words do not gain veracity with their volume.

Have a nice 4th. Freedom for ALL!

DTS

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Do you think the Palestinians have any legitimate grievances? Yes or No?

Yes ... they most certainly do.

Their "leaders" have been suppressing their freedom and stealing their meagre resources for centuries. I hope some day the decent folk among the Palestinians are able to unburden themselves from these murderers and thieves ... and able to enjoy the life and liberty that all humans deserve.

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

The main thing that has held back the economic progress of some African Americans is that they've bought into the concept of the Welfare State ... the idea that government will solve all their problems.

The African Americans who haven't bought into this ... who have been self-reliant ... and there are millions of them ... many of whom live right here on my upper class street ... have done spectacularly well.

And of course you completely overlook the amazing success of Asian immigrants in this country. The Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, Vietnamese, Indians, and Pakistanis are among the most successful and prosperous groups in this country.

You've made a foolish mistake by associating yourself with the hate-America leftist crowd. Get away from those losers ... and you'll be much happier and more successful yourself.

Think seriously about this ... and then act on it ... on this most appropriate day ... the day of Independence.

Me LEFT? Holy mackerel... First time I have been accused of that. Ever.

I will again ask you, right here, right now:
IF YOU COULD BE ANY SEX AND ETHNIC GROUP IN THE UNITED STATES WHAT WOULD IT BE?

and the answer is .... male and caucasian.
If this is not the answer, what is the answer?

Female and of Asian descent..... uhmmm maybe Chinese? Dont make me laugh.
Kid yourself all you want. If you want the best chance of "succeeding" in this country, all other things being equal, its white male.

Oh yes. I do consider myself very successful. I have led the American dream thus far. However, my definition of success probably does not run parallel to yours Bold one.

Originally Posted by pgardn

Me LEFT? Holy mackerel... First time I have been accused of that. Ever.

I will again ask you, right here, right now:
IF YOU COULD BE ANY SEX AND ETHNIC GROUP IN THE UNITED STATES WHAT WOULD IT BE?

and the answer is .... male and caucasian.
If this is not the answer, what is the answer?

Female and of Asian descent..... uhmmm maybe Chinese? Dont make me laugh.
Kid yourself all you want. If you want the best chance of "succeeding" in this country, all other things being equal, its white male.

Oh yes. I do consider myself very successful. I have led the American dream thus far. However, my definition of success probably does not run parallel to yours Bold one.

What you say isn't correct ... far from it ... and it's also very condescending ... I seriously doubt that many males or females of African, Asian, or Native American descent would want to switch to whiteys if they were given the choice of doing so.

And even if it were true that white males somehow have an advantage ... let's hypothesize that it is ... so? So what? What profound conclusion are we supposed to draw from it?

P.S. I didn't say you were a leftist ... I just advised you not to intellectually associate with or be swayed by them.

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

What you say isn't correct ... far from it ... and it's also very condescending ... I seriously doubt that many males or females of African, Asian, or Native American descent would want to switch to whiteys if they were given the choice of doing so.

And even if it were true that white males somehow have an advantage ... let's hypothesize that it is ... so? So what? What profound conclusion are we supposed to draw from it?

P.S. I didn't say you were a leftist ... I just advised you not to intellectually associate with or be swayed by them.

If you seriously do not believe this is correct, I cant help you.

Conclusion... are you kidding me?
Conclusion: In this country, at this time, it is an advantage to be white and male. I'll go further. White, male and Christian. And its very clear why this is so. In fact I bet you can answer it yourself. (hint)Who wrote the Constitution? Another hint. They were not black Hindu females.

Our frikkin country was and still is largely run by white, male Christians. If it is not so, TELL ME WHAT ETHNIC GROUP WOULD YOU MOST WANT TO BE IN ORDER TO REALIZE THE FULL BENEFITS OF THIS COUNTRY?

Lets see here. Lets go thru a minor political office, the Presidency... uhmmm I count how many black females... I count how many white males. GET IT?

Other posters help me with this. Is this Repent pulling my chain?

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by pgardn

If you seriously do not believe this is correct, I cant help you.

Conclusion... are you kidding me?
Conclusion: In this country, at this time, it is an advantage to be white and male. I'll go further. White, male and Christian. And its very clear why this is so. In fact I bet you can answer it yourself. (hint)Who wrote the Constitution? Another hint. They were not black Hindu females.

Our frikkin country was and still is largely run by white, male Christians. If it is not so, TELL ME WHAT ETHNIC GROUP WOULD YOU MOST WANT TO BE IN ORDER TO REALIZE THE FULL BENEFITS OF THIS COUNTRY?

Lets see here. Lets go thru a minor political office, the Presidency... uhmmm I count how many black females... I count how many white males. GET IT?

Other posters help me with this. Is this Repent pulling my chain?

Pgardn, do you think that people who are not white-male-christians are all sitting around the US lamenting their sad lot in life, saying to themselves "Oh how great it would be if I were born a white man". It's condescending if you ask me.

Also I think the advantage now goes to the educated and the hard working. A degreed black female that is ambitious has advantages over a standard white male slacker type that has no ambition.