Librarians, Keepers of the Liberty

[irishtrekker]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

All Americans are rich and powerful ... because all Americans have equal economic opportunity and equal voting power ... one person = one vote.

And our rights are being defended ... and very well I might add ... against the vicious people who would gladly murder all of us ... including the members of this forum. We're all safe and free at our keyboards right now because of the efforts and dedication of our armed services and police forces.

Bush has been president for 5.5 years ... and not one American has had his or her basic liberties stripped away ... so your attempt at creating hysteria is meaningless.

Equal economic opportunity my ass. Like Warren Buffett so eloquently noted (and I can't do it justice), a lot of "opportunity" is luck. None of us chooses who our families are or what economic situations we were born into. Rich kids start with a lot more financial support behind them than the rest of us, and if you really can't see the disparate starting points we all have (and how those affect our paths in life), then you must live in a wonderful imaginary American world.

Look. I'm not afraid of a bunch of terrorists. I am afraid of a bunch of terrified, short-sighted and well-intentioned American citizens handing over every liberty we have in the name of defending our country when someone engages in some clever rhetorical fear-mongering. That's letting the terrorists win. Muzzle the press, delegitimize and stifle dissent, alienate sympathetic allies, and you wind up with a place that may be "safe" but that is so much less than the great nation we're supposed to be. Not in my name, thanks.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by irishtrekker

Equal economic opportunity my ass. Like Warren Buffett so eloquently noted (and I can't do it justice), a lot of "opportunity" is luck. None of us chooses who our families are or what economic situations we were born into. Rich kids start with a lot more financial support behind them than the rest of us, and if you really can't see the disparate starting points we all have (and how those affect our paths in life), then you must live in a wonderful imaginary American world.

Look. I'm not afraid of a bunch of terrorists. I am afraid of a bunch of terrified, short-sighted and well-intentioned American citizens handing over every liberty we have in the name of defending our country when someone engages in some clever rhetorical fear-mongering. That's letting the terrorists win. Muzzle the press, delegitimize and stifle dissent, alienate sympathetic allies, and you wind up with a place that may be "safe" but that is so much less than the great nation we're supposed to be. Not in my name, thanks.

Very well said! I really get tired of this "some folks just want to be poor" crap...it's hard to win a foot race when you are born without legs!

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by irishtrekker

Equal economic opportunity my ass. Like Warren Buffett so eloquently noted (and I can't do it justice), a lot of "opportunity" is luck. None of us chooses who our families are or what economic situations we were born into. Rich kids start with a lot more financial support behind them than the rest of us, and if you really can't see the disparate starting points we all have (and how those affect our paths in life), then you must live in a wonderful imaginary American world.

Look. I'm not afraid of a bunch of terrorists. I am afraid of a bunch of terrified, short-sighted and well-intentioned American citizens handing over every liberty we have in the name of defending our country when someone engages in some clever rhetorical fear-mongering. That's letting the terrorists win. Muzzle the press, delegitimize and stifle dissent, alienate sympathetic allies, and you wind up with a place that may be "safe" but that is so much less than the great nation we're supposed to be. Not in my name, thanks.

I like the way you think.

Originally Posted by paisjpq

I like the way you think.

There was no thought involved in that sophomoric response.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

There was no thought involved in that sophomoric response.

I am not an idiot. Do Not tell me what to believe.

[Exceller]

Librarians? Is this a joke. Librarians are like dinosaurs. They serve little use today.

The people that deserve thanks are the people that risked their lives, many who lost their lives so we could have liberty.

Was George Washington a librarian? LOL.

So ... what we have as "proof" for leftist propaganda talking points ... are ...

... are even more leftist propaganda talking points.

You have not ... and cannot ... cite a single example of liberties being stripped away ... or media being muzzled ... or allies being alienated.

The truest way to evaluate how foreigners regard another country ... is not to listen to leftists regurgitating their talking points ... but to watch the feet of ordinary people. And right now ... as always ... the feet of the people throughout the world are stampeding toward the United States ... not away from it.

Nearly everyone wants to get in ... and virtually no one ... including the leftists who compose the anti-American propaganda ... wants to get out.

Regurgitating talking points is not "thought" ... it's mindless toadyism.

[Exceller]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

So ... what we have as "proof" for leftist propaganda talking points ... are ...

... are even more leftist propaganda talking points.

You have not ... and cannot ... cite a single example of liberties being stripped away ... or media being muzzled ... or allies being alienated.

The truest way to evaluate how foreigners regard another country ... is not to listen to leftists regurgitating their talking points ... but to watch the feet of ordinary people. And right now ... as always ... the feet of the people throughout the world are stampeding toward the United States ... not away from it.

Nearly everyone wants to get in ... and virtually no one ... including the leftists who compose the anti-American propaganda ... wants to get out.

Regurgitating talking points is not "thought" ... it's mindless toadyism.

No liberties have been stripped away, so you shouldn't expect an answer from these liberals who have destroyed the Democratic Party with their nonsense.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

So ... what we have as "proof" for leftist propaganda talking points ... are ...

... are even more leftist propaganda talking points.

You have not ... and cannot ... cite a single example of liberties being stripped away ... or media being muzzled ... or allies being alienated.

The truest way to evaluate how foreigners regard another country ... is not to listen to leftists regurgitating their talking points ... but to watch the feet of ordinary people. And right now ... as always ... the feet of the people throughout the world are stampeding toward the United States ... not away from it.

Nearly everyone wants to get in ... and virtually no one ... including the leftists who compose the anti-American propaganda ... wants to get out.

Regurgitating talking points is not "thought" ... it's mindless toadyism.

which is exactly what you're doing, regurgitating talking points, just on the other side of the spectrum.

[Seattleallstar]

I havent read much of the posts, but all I have to say is that no one person in America cant say they dont have a chance or were given the opportunities. Thats just straight up BS

Originally Posted by irishtrekker

Equal economic opportunity my ass.

Equal opportunity ... not equal results.

Scores of millions of Americans who were once dirt poor ... for example, my family ... are now quite wealthy ... because they took advantage of the opportunities available to them in this wonderful country.

The "rich" whom you refer to ... also were once poor ... as virtually no one came to this country already wealthy.

America is the land of incredible opportunity ... and only losers and bums bemoan their fate here.

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Equal opportunity ... not equal results.

America is the land of incredible opportunity ...

The first part of course is totally bovine residue. The second point is why most of us live here.

Cmon Bold one. ON THE WHOLE there is very clearly most opportunity for white males in the US. You cannot tell me with any sort of sincerety, that if one wanted to have the greatest opportunity in the US, one would want to be a black female. Replace black female with white male and bingo, ON THE WHOLE, the greatest opportunity. You may point to exceptions like Oprah etc..., but on the average, no one in this country with any sense kids themselves about this country as it stands.

So tell me... you would rather have been born a latino female because this would, on average, give you the greatest opportunity in this country? If not, what ethnic group and sex would most likely lead to opportunity?

Caucasian and male. Any other response is dreamworld. Dont try and lie to yourself and make things look hunky-dory. I am damn glad I am Caucasian and male. I sincerely believe if I was black and female, my opportunties would not have been as great ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL.

This is what has lead to some of the very devisive equal opportunity rules that screw lots of Caucasian kids trying to get into college. BE real here.

[my miss storm cat]

As an aside, it seems to me a slight discrepancy, Bold, that you would say... " I wouldn't wager that anyone named as a suspect is completely innocent" on the Fallon thread.

Originally Posted by pgardn

The first part of course is totally bovine residue. The second point is why most of us live here.

Cmon Bold one. ON THE WHOLE there is very clearly most opportunity for white males in the US. You cannot tell me with any sort of sincerety, that if one wanted to have the greatest opportunity in the US, one would want to be a black female. Replace black female with white male and bingo, ON THE WHOLE, the greatest opportunity. You may point to exceptions like Oprah etc..., but on the average, no one in this country with any sense kids themselves about this country as it stands.

So tell me... you would rather have been born a latino female because this would, on average, give you the greatest opportunity in this country? If not, what ethnic group and sex would most likely lead to opportunity?

Caucasian and male. Any other response is dreamworld. Dont try and lie to yourself and make things look hunky-dory. I am damn glad I am Caucasian and male. I sincerely believe if I was black and female, my opportunties would not have been as great ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL.

This is what has lead to some of the very devisive equal opportunity rules that screw lots of Caucasian kids trying to get into college. BE real here.

The main thing that has held back the economic progress of some African Americans is that they've bought into the concept of the Welfare State ... the idea that government will solve all their problems.

The African Americans who haven't bought into this ... who have been self-reliant ... and there are millions of them ... many of whom live right here on my upper class street ... have done spectacularly well.

And of course you completely overlook the amazing success of Asian immigrants in this country. The Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, Vietnamese, Indians, and Pakistanis are among the most successful and prosperous groups in this country.

You've made a foolish mistake by associating yourself with the hate-America leftist crowd. Get away from those losers ... and you'll be much happier and more successful yourself.

Think seriously about this ... and then act on it ... on this most appropriate day ... the day of Independence.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

The main thing that has held back the economic progress of some African Americans is that they've bought into the concept of the Welfare State ... the idea that government will solve all their problems.

The African Americans who haven't bought into this ... who have been self-reliant ... and there are millions of them ... many of whom live right here on my upper class street ... have done spectacularly well.

And of course you completely overlook the amazing success of Asian immigrants in the country. The Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, Vietnamese, Indians, and Pakistanis are among the most successful and prosperous groups in this country.

You've made a foolish mistake by associating yourself with the hate-America leftist crowd. Get away from those losers ... and you'll be much happier and more successful yourself.

Think seriously about this ... and then act on it ... on this most appropriate day ... the day of Independence.

Do you think the Palestinians have any legitimate grievances? Yes or No?

[Downthestretch55]

BB,
I disagree with you regarding "America haters".
It IS possible to LOVE America yet dispute the policies of the present administration...in fact, I consider it patriotic, even if you don't.

May I also add that I wasn't the one that initated discussion of "history".
The obvious error of your "arguements" is diversion from the topic, insults, and "broad brush" categorizations. Typical freshman debating tactics.

[irishtrekker]

DTS, amen to that! Not sure why constructively criticizing America is always equated with hating it...Seems like certain people have so little security in their beliefs that they can't actually reflect on any idea that dares challenge them because they have to be right! I think it's quite patriotic to love a country despite its flaws, and to commit yourself to doing something about them.

Check out this editorial today, which I think sums it up quite well: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...070300925.html

Happy Fourth, all.

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

BB,
I disagree with you regarding "America haters".
It IS possible to LOVE America yet dispute the policies of the present administration...in fact, I consider it patriotic, even if you don't.

May I also add that I wasn't the one that initated discussion of "history".
The obvious error of your "arguements" is diversion from the topic, insults, and "broad brush" categorizations. Typical freshman debating tactics.

You say you want to dispute the policies of this administration ... yet all you've talked about are the Spanish conquistadors and the colonial slave traders of centuries yore.

Neither you nor your ideological comrades have come up with a single instance of "stripping away of liberty" despite having had ample opportunity to do so.

When you have a cogent thought of your own ... we'll all be glad to hear it. But rote regurgitation of leftist agitprop is a complete bore.

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Do you think the Palestinians have any legitimate grievances? Yes or No?

Yes ... they most certainly do.

Their "leaders" have been suppressing their freedom and stealing their meagre resources for centuries. I hope some day the decent folk among the Palestinians are able to unburden themselves from these murderers and thieves ... and able to enjoy the life and liberty that all humans deserve.

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

The main thing that has held back the economic progress of some African Americans is that they've bought into the concept of the Welfare State ... the idea that government will solve all their problems.

The African Americans who haven't bought into this ... who have been self-reliant ... and there are millions of them ... many of whom live right here on my upper class street ... have done spectacularly well.

And of course you completely overlook the amazing success of Asian immigrants in this country. The Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, Vietnamese, Indians, and Pakistanis are among the most successful and prosperous groups in this country.

You've made a foolish mistake by associating yourself with the hate-America leftist crowd. Get away from those losers ... and you'll be much happier and more successful yourself.

Think seriously about this ... and then act on it ... on this most appropriate day ... the day of Independence.

Me LEFT? Holy mackerel... First time I have been accused of that. Ever.

I will again ask you, right here, right now:
IF YOU COULD BE ANY SEX AND ETHNIC GROUP IN THE UNITED STATES WHAT WOULD IT BE?

and the answer is .... male and caucasian.
If this is not the answer, what is the answer?

Female and of Asian descent..... uhmmm maybe Chinese? Dont make me laugh.
Kid yourself all you want. If you want the best chance of "succeeding" in this country, all other things being equal, its white male.

Oh yes. I do consider myself very successful. I have led the American dream thus far. However, my definition of success probably does not run parallel to yours Bold one.