Jazil to finally try turf!

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Why the hate for Jazil?

Let's recount his resume....lost by a half length in a NW1X to Corinthian.....second in the Wood Memorial.....fourth in the Kentucky Derby.....won the Belmont.

Sounds OK to me.

No, he's not a world beater by any stretch of the imagination but he's also a far more accomplished animal than recent Belmont winners Commendable and Sarava. Bringing up that he won the Belmont while eligible for a NW1X is to completely ignore the realities of the current Triple Crown preps. Do I think it's great for racing that conditional allowances have suffered in the " rush-rush " approach with 3YOs nowadays? No, I don't. And I don't think it is overall great for the game and is most likely one of the reasons horses don't stay healthy for long anymore. However, it is what it is, and Jazil, as a racehorse, should not be discredited because of this.

A voice of reason. I think u have discussed horses with me long enough to know where I am coming from with this. This wasn't about Jazil, per se. It could have easily been Sarava or Commendable. It was about the state of the game, as u say, it is what it is. It's about a horse that's not done much of anything of note in his career, other than winning a Classic race, being givin credit for being more. When I hear things about how we should happy he's still in training, it kills me. Why should we be? In a way, I could be doing this same thing while talking about horses like Bernardini, Ghostzapper, Smarty Jones, Discreet Cat, etc. In those cases, I'm guilty myself of some of the same things I'm bothered by with those that talk about Jazil. The way the game is today, we have had to lower our standards so that we can have something to believe in. In reality, even though I call him a great horse, calling Discreet Cat a great horse lessens the accomplishments of the actual real great horses, horses like Bid and Dr Fager and Affirmed. That's how I feel about this situation with Jazil. It's a personal thing but I want to feel like our best races are won by our best horses. When I look back in the history books and see the names of the horses that have won our Kentucky Derby, our Belmont Stakes, our Travers, JCGC, SA Hcp....I want to know those were the best horses we had in those years. Not some horse that just happened to be the best horse that day of a bunch of bad ones.

Maybe everyone else is willing to just accept it the way it is now and be happy about it. Be happy that we are able to see Jazil come back. Be happy to see the 4-5 race "campaigns" that make up the seasons for top horses nowdays. Like I said, I'm guilty of it myself to an extent. So I guess if people want to be happy with this stuff, that's their right. I want better. I want the game to be better than this.

[King Glorious]

Question for anyone that knows the answer.

After the race, McLaughlin shrugged his shoulders. "Well, that didn't work," he said. "We know the rest of the year now he'll run in dirt races. It's too bad he had to try the turf for the first time on that kind of a course."

My question is if McLaughlin thought it was the soft turf that was the problem, why is he giving up on grass racing now? Wouldn't it stand to reason that he might want to try running on a firm turf course before giving up on it?

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Question for anyone that knows the answer.

After the race, McLaughlin shrugged his shoulders. "Well, that didn't work," he said. "We know the rest of the year now he'll run in dirt races. It's too bad he had to try the turf for the first time on that kind of a course."

My question is if McLaughlin thought it was the soft turf that was the problem, why is he giving up on grass racing now? Wouldn't it stand to reason that he might want to try running on a firm turf course before giving up on it?

The full quote I found in Bloodhorse;
“It’s a shame that his first time on turf, the turf was yielding and since it was the last day of the meet it was pretty chewed up,” said trainer Kiarin McLaughlin. “But he just didn’t run well. This was an experiment. If he’d liked it, it would have given us more options. But we’ll probably go back to the dirt.”

If I had to guess, I would say that he called it a shame about the turf condition knowing that Jazil probably only was going to get one shot on it, and with that one shot he must show a real affinity for the surface, and that if he had his preference he would have preferred that this one shot come on a firm course because it probably would be more to Jazils liking.

Notice that he said that we'll "probably" go back to dirt. To me that doesn't mean that another turf try is totally ruled out.

Of course if McLaughlin had the benefit of your keen insights, he would know that he has a fraud on his hands, a pig, and would immediately just give up on the horse and apologize for wasting everyones time.

[SniperSB23]

Where exactly are the people calling Jazil great? I don't think I've ever seen anyone describe him as great on either forum. The closest I can even think of is that maybe someone said he ran great in the Belmont but that is a typical phrase thrown around regularly. I've never heard Jazil referred to as a great horse. That is why I don't understand the bashing of him.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

A voice of reason. I think u have discussed horses with me long enough to know where I am coming from with this. This wasn't about Jazil, per se. It could have easily been Sarava or Commendable. It was about the state of the game, as u say, it is what it is. It's about a horse that's not done much of anything of note in his career, other than winning a Classic race, being givin credit for being more. When I hear things about how we should happy he's still in training, it kills me. Why should we be? In a way, I could be doing this same thing while talking about horses like Bernardini, Ghostzapper, Smarty Jones, Discreet Cat, etc. In those cases, I'm guilty myself of some of the same things I'm bothered by with those that talk about Jazil. The way the game is today, we have had to lower our standards so that we can have something to believe in. In reality, even though I call him a great horse, calling Discreet Cat a great horse lessens the accomplishments of the actual real great horses, horses like Bid and Dr Fager and Affirmed. That's how I feel about this situation with Jazil. It's a personal thing but I want to feel like our best races are won by our best horses. When I look back in the history books and see the names of the horses that have won our Kentucky Derby, our Belmont Stakes, our Travers, JCGC, SA Hcp....I want to know those were the best horses we had in those years. Not some horse that just happened to be the best horse that day of a bunch of bad ones.

Maybe everyone else is willing to just accept it the way it is now and be happy about it. Be happy that we are able to see Jazil come back. Be happy to see the 4-5 race "campaigns" that make up the seasons for top horses nowdays. Like I said, I'm guilty of it myself to an extent. So I guess if people want to be happy with this stuff, that's their right. I want better. I want the game to be better than this.

Okay but here is my problem with what you say here. Are there actually many people that do claim "greatness" for Jazil? I don't think so. Doesn't it make sense to be happy he is back simply because he is a halfway decent older router? The sport needs as many of these as it can get right now.
You seem to set up only two ways of classifying a horse. They are either "great" or they are a "pig." Is that fair? If Jazil is a "pig" what word would you use to describe horses like Bluegrass Cat that he beat in the Belmont? What word would you use to describe a $15,000 claimer? If you follow your logic it would seem like 1 out of every 10,000 horses would be great and the other 9,999 would all be pigs. That is a bit simplistic isn't it?
It all just seems strange to me, because it seems like you are saying that if he finished second in the Belmont you wouldn't care about him at all......but since he won it, you feel the need to bash him.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Maybe everyone else is willing to just accept it the way it is now and be happy about it. Be happy that we are able to see Jazil come back. Be happy to see the 4-5 race "campaigns" that make up the seasons for top horses nowdays. Like I said, I'm guilty of it myself to an extent. So I guess if people want to be happy with this stuff, that's their right. I want better. I want the game to be better than this.

First you imply that you aren't willing to just accept the way it is now,
then you say you're guilty of it to an extent. So how are you different than anyone else? huh?

If this whole bashing of Jazil and calling him a pig is your way of lamenting that racing was so much better in the past, why didn't you just say that in the beginning?

Do you think you are some sharpy who has observed racings slide and that no one else has noticed and just accepts it unknowingly? No one on here is totally happy with the state of racing today. You question why people accept this, as if there is an alternative. What do you suggest we do?

So you are not happy, embarrassed, and don't accept what racing has become. So what? What are YOU doing about it besides running around screaming that certain horses are pigs?

I wish that racing was on the level it was when I first came to know about it decades ago, but I am not running around miserable each day, pouting and pointing fingers. I'm too busy enjoying what we have which includes all types of horses, even those like Jazil.

[Danzig]

i'd say that calling this horse a pig would be as accurate as calling him great. funny that someone complains about one end of the spectrum, and then runs all the way to the other.
yeah, i'm happy to see jazil still running. he's the only one of the three classic winners from last year left. does it mean i think he's hoy material? no. but i don't think he's a pig either. he's coming back from injury, extensive layoff, and excels at longer distances-he may never do the first, the second shouldn't be a problem, and the third is hard to find anymore. it's only april, still plenty of season left for them to find his stride, his niche.