Capital OTB discontinues free PP's

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Well honestly and no offense to anyone that has an affiliation to OTB, they really haven't shown that they really care about the bettor anyway. In most parlors you're lucky to have the scratches put up. Good luck getting someone working in a parlor to accomodate you at all. I wasn't aware they even sent you PP's, but I assume the fact they are now charging is in connection with the fact they no longer are giving away free PP's in the clubhouse at the teletheatre. Doesn't effect me at all as I am a DRF guy anyway, but $1 a day isn't that bad. I agree with the principle thing but a buck seems sort of reasonable for PP's a day.

Agree...the price isn't the problem for what you get. And your right about the scratches and results, especially at the Teletheater and the Woodlawn branch...they usual post them up front by the cashiers. Christ, the Fort Plain branch the last hour it's open has all the PP sheets taken down so you can't get the results if you walk in. I played more when I got the PP's via e-mail...I guess it's time for a break!

[MisterB]

I recieved the same letter, I am not going to use their account any longer. They will feel the impact, but I think they are under the GUN from other agency's in a law dispute.

Anyway, I never really used them. I think I am going to activate my NYRA account when Belmont opens.

[parsixfarms]

Based on conversations that I've had with a few of the marketing people at the Teletheater, it seems that this is a copyright issue with the Track-Data people who produce the PPs. That being said, the issue is really about OTB paying to redistribute the PPs. Rather than assuming that burden itself, it is asking the customers to pay for something OTB would be better off providing as a courtesy for its better players. No doubt that its handle will be adversely impacted. When you consider how much OTB gets from each dollar bet, this is yet another example of them being pennywise but pound foolish.

[pmayjr]

If it means anything, they're not bullshittin you about contractual obligations. Canterbury quit giving out free scratch sheets (post positions, morning line odds, at each track on the simulcast schedule) a couple of months ago due to having those same "contractual issues" with Equibase. They charge 50 cents for them now.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

If it means anything, they're not bullshittin you about contractual obligations. Canterbury quit giving out free scratch sheets (post positions, morning line odds, at each track on the simulcast schedule) a couple of months ago due to having those same "contractual issues" with Equibase. They charge 50 cents for them now.

I'm not suggesting that they are are BSing about the contractual obligations. What I am saying is that rather than forcing the bettors to dig into their pockets to pay for the PPs, OTB would be better served by paying its contractual partners for the right to redistribute them to its patrons. The lost percentage of handle (and keep in mind that OTB gets in excess of 10 cents of every dollar wagered) is likely to far outweigh the cost to OTB of providing the PPs to its best players free of charge.

[Linny]

Under copyright laws, Capital, (or any other agency distributing such data) would be forced not to eat the $1 cost abut the cost of 4 sets of PP's multiplied by the number of customers who get them. If 1000 patrons are getting the pp's and each track costs (hypothetically) $.50, then they are eating $2000 per day. Based on that number, Capital would need to be handling over $200k in bets generated by those pp's. Charging $1 for the information allows them to avoid a copyright lawsuit for distributing copyrighted material for free. Capital may buy it from Track-Data but that doesn't allow it's free distribution.

Honestly, I have never quite understood the concept of free info. If you are going to the track you buy a Form or or download pps (for a fee!) or buy a program when you get there. OTB's got in the habit of hanging pages of the Form on the walls back in the 70's, something NO RACETRACK I know of has ever done. When the Form threathened action, some OTB's stopped. The idea was that "limited" free info was OK for some but that most customers would be frustrated with sharing pages of a pulled apart Form with the rest of the place and would but their own.

From Mister B
"I recieved the same letter, I am not going to use their account any longer. They will feel the impact, but I think they are under the GUN from other agency's in a law dispute.

Anyway, I never really used them. I think I am going to activate my NYRA account when Belmont opens.
04-19-2007 10:09 PM "

You never used the pp's but even though you are NOT effected by the change, you wont use Capital any more. You will use NYRA. Will they send you free data daily for 4 of the most popular tracks? Would you leave them if they started charing $1 for such info?

Overall, I would not be surprised to see more issues like this in racing. It's a data driven game and companies that compile and store data are becoming more and more aware of it's widespread distribution. I liken it to the music industry. When I was a kid I copied a favorite song onto cassette tapes from the radio. No one really cared. With computers making file sharing easy music companies went berserk over free distribution of their product. The very liberal use and distribution of racing data has become a problem for the owners/compilers of the data and we will see more of these problems.

Rather than me angry about a free service being removed, be thankful that it was available free for a time.

When threatened with leagl action that could but the company out of business any company would do the same thing. They have to "make right" on the contractual agreement or come under penalty.

For the point of view of the owner of such data, maybe BTW or someone else associted w/ the Form may have more info.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

I understand where you coming from and the position you're in. It is just a "buck" a day, but since the information was provided "free" of charge, I played five out of seven day week and even sometimes six. Before that, it was just the weekend and during the week if I saw something interesting. But, now I may cut back on wagering because it won't be there, plus summer is coming and got "other" things to do. Capital does do more than it's share for it's patrons, but I guess the "bottom line" does mean more. I still think, the more that is provided "free of charge" by the wagering outlets and racetracks...the more new people will be attracted to the sport. The "racscinos" tend to do that for their customers.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by Linny

Honestly, I have never quite understood the concept of free info.

Never underestimate the power of free. Some of the most powerful companies in the world are based upon the premise of free. Google and free search is one example, but a more close to home example is casinos. If you had to pay $1.00 to sit down at a slot machine, would you ever sit? Of course not.

In horse racing, the game changer is the information. The information is horded like its the Holy Grail. Equibase, who controls the information, only licenses it. Those who sell it are not allowed to give it away for free, to protect the information's value and protect their interests.

If the industry were to ever overcome this ridiculous hurdle, one can only imagine where it could take us.

[pmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by MisterB

I recieved the same letter, I am not going to use their account any longer. They will feel the impact, but I think they are under the GUN from other agency's in a law dispute.

Anyway, I never really used them. I think I am going to activate my NYRA account when Belmont opens.

Mr. B,

Any idea how NYRA accounts are going to work? Phone and internet? Rewards?

Thanks

[pmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by pmacdaddy

Mr. B,

Any idea how NYRA accounts are going to work? Phone and internet? Rewards?

Thanks

Found the site. Looks like they have phone and internet. Cash rewards appear to start at $2k per month. Don't think I would make that most months with the exception of August.

Wonder if they will hook up account holders with free track gear, track passes etc. I'm certainly not married to OTB...

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Well, I guess "they" aren't sending the free PP's for Keeneland anymore...got them yesterday just before 11
and didn't get any today...was getting them the day before.
I'm not paying for anything if I don't recieve them on a timely manner.
It was something I looked forward to in my "inbox" each day.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Props to Capital OTB for reinstating the free PP's for it's phone-a-bet customers!
It's good to know that someone is listening to the bettors out there!

BRAVO!