invasor is similar to alysheba

Sightseek · #1 04-01-2007, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

yes he did. er, if i wanted to be a smart ass, i'd say so did najran...but i don't, so i won't!! lol

Well that is truthful as I think Bandini had a track record too but I thought Alysheba's records came from breaking a long-standing record. I'm not sure if they were a product though of the circumstances surrounding the race ie. set-up, track condition.

Danzig · #2 04-01-2007, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Well that is truthful as I think Bandini had a track record too but I thought Alysheba's records came from breaking a long-standing record. I'm not sure if they were a product though of the circumstances surrounding the race ie. set-up, track condition.

no, he broke the 10f at meadowlands--he ran several sub-2.00 10f races in a row, i think that was a record as well. i'm being a bit facetious in comparing him to the great najran.

i don't think i'm taking a thing away from alysheba if i say i think invasor is better. i think invasor is THAT good.

pmayjr · #3 04-01-2007, 11:42 AM

I'll throw a Seabiscuit comparison out there too. Has Invasor ever romped in a race? I think he seriously toys with his opponents. Premium Tap was game all the way down the stretch yesterday, and Invasor drew even with him for a long time, and then in deep deep deep stretch he puts on the afterburners and blows by him.

Cannon Shell · #4 04-01-2007, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmayjr

I'll throw a Seabiscuit comparison out there too. Has Invasor ever romped in a race? I think he seriously toys with his opponents. Premium Tap was game all the way down the stretch yesterday, and Invasor drew even with him for a long time, and then in deep deep deep stretch he puts on the afterburners and blows by him.

Seabiscuit ran more in one summer than Invasor ran in three years

JJP · #5 04-01-2007, 12:08 PM

I think Invasor is very good but we have a tendency to sometimes overestimate the most recent horse or athlete. I don't think I can hold the Lasix thing against Alysheba; its legal everywhere in North America. If they had a Dubai World Cup back in 1988 does anybody think a Euro or South American horse would've stood a chance against Alysheba? No way.

Danzig · #6 04-01-2007, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJP

I think Invasor is very good but we have a tendency to sometimes overestimate the most recent horse or athlete. I don't think I can hold the Lasix thing against Alysheba; its legal everywhere in North America. If they had a Dubai World Cup back in 1988 does anybody think a Euro or South American horse would've stood a chance against Alysheba? No way.

well, since you're not allowed lasix in dubai, it might have hindered his chances there.

JJP · #7 04-01-2007, 12:12 PM

Maybe, maybe not. I know Alysheba didn't run well in the Belmont but the 12 furlongs might've been what did him in. Very similar to Unbridled in that respect. But when Unbridled ran w/out Lasix in NY in the 1990 BC Classic at 10 furlongs, it didn't matter.

Cannon Shell · #8 04-01-2007, 12:11 PM

The problem with modern day racing is that no one really races anymore. Greatness in a horse used to be defined by many things among them winning important races over several seasons while carrying weight. Also a horse was judged by the calibur of competition that they were racing against which is a big problem for horses like Invasor who has really not faced much in the way of competition. The race yesterday was a perfect example of that. He has already proven that he a better horse than Premium Tap. What did he do yesterday except prove that again. With Discreet Cat obviously in some sort of distress, I cant really say that Invasor moved up in historical standards by winning that race regardless of the purse. It is not Invasors fault that he has no other top horses to compete against and he does win but he has yet to defeat a horse who would even be considered to be in the same breath as a hall of famer.

Danzig · #9 04-01-2007, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The problem with modern day racing is that no one really races anymore. Greatness in a horse used to be defined by many things among them winning important races over several seasons while carrying weight. Also a horse was judged by the calibur of competition that they were racing against which is a big problem for horses like Invasor who has really not faced much in the way of competition. The race yesterday was a perfect example of that. He has already proven that he a better horse than Premium Tap. What did he do yesterday except prove that again. With Discreet Cat obviously in some sort of distress, I cant really say that Invasor moved up in historical standards by winning that race regardless of the purse. It is not Invasors fault that he has no other top horses to compete against and he does win but he has yet to defeat a horse who would even be considered to be in the same breath as a hall of famer.

that's all very true, and it's a very sad state of racing affairs that that is true.
there are no real handicap races anymore, the race is more often to the shed any more, rather than on the track.
thanks for the post, i do need to try to keep this more in perspective. i'm very high on the horse-it's a shame that lack of stiff competition might mean he's another 'could be' great rather than proving he is great.

Cannon Shell · #10 04-01-2007, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

that's all very true, and it's a very sad state of racing affairs that that is true.
there are no real handicap races anymore, the race is more often to the shed any more, rather than on the track.
thanks for the post, i do need to try to keep this more in perspective. i'm very high on the horse-it's a shame that lack of stiff competition might mean he's another 'could be' great rather than proving he is great.

He obvously is a very good horse and it is not that easy to ship and win anytime but I just don't get this feeling that I am watching a great horse when I watch him. Maybe it is the workmanlike style but I think it is that there are no really good other horses out there to compete with him. It would be interesting to see him ship west to take on Lava Man on his home turf in a race like the Pacific Classic. But there is no chance that will happen.

Sightseek · #11 04-01-2007, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The problem with modern day racing is that no one really races anymore. Greatness in a horse used to be defined by many things among them winning important races over several seasons while carrying weight. Also a horse was judged by the calibur of competition that they were racing against which is a big problem for horses like Invasor who has really not faced much in the way of competition. The race yesterday was a perfect example of that. He has already proven that he a better horse than Premium Tap. What did he do yesterday except prove that again. With Discreet Cat obviously in some sort of distress, I cant really say that Invasor moved up in historical standards by winning that race regardless of the purse. It is not Invasors fault that he has no other top horses to compete against and he does win but he has yet to defeat a horse who would even be considered to be in the same breath as a hall of famer.

Yes, but in order to do that he had to run closer to the pace than in the Breeder's Cup Classic...so yes Invasor proved even more quality this time even if only defeating the same horse.

JJP · #12 04-01-2007, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Yes, but in order to do that he had to run closer to the pace than in the Breeder's Cup Classic...so yes Invasor proved even more quality this time even if only defeating the same horse.

No way was yesterday's race better than his BC Classic performance. Not even on the same page. First, he was closer to the pace because it was a crawlfest. Kandidate, the horse who everyone figured to go to the front, didn't, or couldnt. Discreet Cat was a total no-show. Last November, Invasor had to run down Bernardini, who at the time was favorite for Horse of the Year and he did it while wide over a rail friendly surface. Premium Tap had a good trip last November and still was 7 lengths behind. The also rans in the BC race would've murdered those Asian wannabe dirt runners who were fillers for yesterday's race.

Cannon Shell · #13 04-01-2007, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Yes, but in order to do that he had to run closer to the pace than in the Breeder's Cup Classic...so yes Invasor proved even more quality this time even if only defeating the same horse.

I dont understand your logic?

saucon17 · #14 04-01-2007, 11:49 AM

A couple of months ago when McCarron was on TVG Legends.
G Stevens asked him of all the great Handicap horses he rode
what horse would you ride if they were all in the same race this
included Sunday Silence, Tiznow, Alysheba, Alphabet Soup and
many others. CJ said no question it would be Alysheba.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz99ipc-KOw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZjyPzs0uTM

PPerfectfan · #15 04-04-2007, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saucon17

A couple of months ago when McCarron was on TVG Legends.
G Stevens asked him of all the great Handicap horses he rode
what horse would you ride if they were all in the same race this
included Sunday Silence, Tiznow, Alysheba, Alphabet Soup and
many others. CJ said no question it would be Alysheba.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz99ipc-KOw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZjyPzs0uTM

I saw that, wasnt that great. So interesting to see who he would ride (great choice by the way), who would ride the others and how the race would set up. God if only we could see that one!!!!