Gaza And Hamas

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Brooklynite, I don't defend or support terrorism in any way, shape or form, but you forget the Israelis are civilized and prosperous because they are supported by the USA.

The Palestinians receive far more aid per capita from foreign governments than Israel ever has.

Israel became prosperous the way every other country has become prosperous ... by living under the rule of law themselves ... and applying that same rule of law to their foreign guests.

Prosperity begins with safety and freedom ... and you can't have either if your only thought ... your obsession ... is to kill everyone who disagrees with you.

The Palestinians are economically poor because they're morally bankrupt.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

The Palestinians receive far more aid per capita from foreign governments than Israel ever has.

Israel became prosperous the way every other country has become prosperous ... by living under the rule of law themselves ... and applying that same rule of law to their foreign guests.

Prosperity begins with safety and freedom ... and you can't have either if your only thought ... your obsession ... is to kill everyone who disagrees with you.

The Palestinians are economically poor because they're morally bankrupt.

BB, can you post some statistics to back up that assertion, please? Be sure to include defense funding in those numbers. And the source from where you get the statistics that Palestinians receive more aid per capita, and how much aid they get per capita. And the total amount received by the Palestinians and by the Israelis, since you say Palestine has received more aid than Israel ever had.

Believe it or not, I'm not disputing; I just want the facts and the source so I can cross-check it. Post them, please!

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

BB, can you post some statistics to back up that assertion, please? Be sure to include defense funding in those numbers. And the source from where you get the statistics that Palestinians receive more aid per capita, and how much aid they get per capita. And the total amount received by the Palestinians and by the Israelis, since you say Palestine has received more aid than Israel ever had.

Believe it or not, I'm not disputing; I just want the facts and the source so I can cross-check it. Post them, please!

Neither the Israeli economy nor the Palestinian economy benefits significantly from foreign aid ... but for very different reasons.

The aid to Israel is used almost exclusively for defense ... and the reason they need it for defense is because the Arab nations keep attacking them. Absent unprovoked attacks against its very existence ... Israel would not need ... nor want .... any foreign aid.

The aid to the Palestinians is intended for economic benefit ... but almost none reaches the average Palestinian ... because their "leaders" steal it from them. Can you say, "Suha Arafat is alive and well in Paris"?

I repeat ... Israel is a modern and prosperous country because it lives by the rule of law ... and applies the same rule of law to everyone.

The Palestinians are impoverished and backward because they are morally bankrupt.

Any country can become prosperous ... by providing safety and freedom for its citizens and visitors. Switzerland ... a small, landlocked, mountainous country in the center of Europe ... became the birthplace of chocolate confections ... the basis of which ... cocoa ... is a tropical plant. If Switzerland can score a big success with chocolate ... any country can be successful with anything ... provided it is lawful and honorable.

If the Palestiinians lived by the rule of law and respect for others ... they'd be a lot more successful than they are.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

The Palestinians receive far more aid per capita from foreign governments than Israel ever has.

Israel became prosperous the way every other country has become prosperous ... by living under the rule of law themselves ... and applying that same rule of law to their foreign guests.

Prosperity begins with safety and freedom ... and you can't have either if your only thought ... your obsession ... is to kill everyone who disagrees with you.

The Palestinians are economically poor because they're morally bankrupt.

Disagree!
That's the same line of thinking as American whites used against Native Americans.
So what? You're already living here, but WE want it. WE'LL put a little land aside for you to live on....take it or leave it.
If you don't like it, we'll kill all the buffalo that you depend on for sustinace.
Go to the reservation, NOW!
If you resist, we'll kill you. (did).

So the British give over Palestine so there could be a Zionist state under UN protection in 1948. Hey! Palistinians, get out of here! It's ours now. God gave it to us (duh! I thought the British did under UN protection...play the guilt for what Hitler did to you...and then you do the exact same thing to the people you dispossess).

Go to you're Gaza strip and West Bank. We have US backing and funding.
The US evens supplies us with F-16's. Tanks too!
If you resist, we'll kill you. (did)

Can anyone blame Native Americans or Palestinians for having a dim view of events that have effected their lives?

"Those that ignore the lessons of history are condemned to repeat them."

Same story, again.
Force people off their land and expect them to negotiate?
I don't think so.

The Palestinians and Israelis both are extremely annoying. Our government should take care of its own before helping out these groups. I wouldn't trust either one of them with anything. They have been fighting forever and will continue to fight forever. I am tired of giving them my tax dollar to kill each other.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by boldruler

The Palestinians and Israelis both are extremely annoying. Our government should take care of its own before helping out these groups. I wouldn't trust either one of them with anything. They have been fighting forever and will continue to fight forever. I am tired of giving them my tax dollar to kill each other.

... But you still haven't given me any hard numbers on my earlier question?

And one can also argue that Switzerland does well because of the high tax rate its citizens pay. Which, by the way, is not necessarily a bad thing. I love how many a wistful conservative-minded American will recall the 1950's as an idyllic time in the US... but fail to recall that the tax rate was also much more progressive-- up to 90 percent for the highest incomes, I believe. Which meant more money for education, GI bills, highways, etc. I don't think it's all due to chocolate (though lord knows I eat enough of it to support Switzerland all by myself)! Hee hee.

[GenuineRisk]

... and this has been a really interesting discussion, guys! This board is sooo much better than the ESPN one was... I get better racing education in the Paddock and more fun debates in the Off-Topic...

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

... But you still haven't given me any hard numbers on my earlier question?

And one can also argue that Switzerland does well because of the high tax rate its citizens pay. Which, by the way, is not necessarily a bad thing. I love how many a wistful conservative-minded American will recall the 1950's as an idyllic time in the US... but fail to recall that the tax rate was also much more progressive-- up to 90 percent for the highest incomes, I believe. Which meant more money for education, GI bills, highways, etc. I don't think it's all due to chocolate (though lord knows I eat enough of it to support Switzerland all by myself)! Hee hee.

Screw Switzerland. Half the worlds criminals live there. That guy Marc Rich who ran off without paying his taxes gets haven there along with all the other oil/arms dealer criminals.

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

... But you still haven't given me any hard numbers on my earlier question?

And one can also argue that Switzerland does well because of the high tax rate its citizens pay. Which, by the way, is not necessarily a bad thing. I love how many a wistful conservative-minded American will recall the 1950's as an idyllic time in the US... but fail to recall that the tax rate was also much more progressive-- up to 90 percent for the highest incomes, I believe. Which meant more money for education, GI bills, highways, etc. I don't think it's all due to chocolate (though lord knows I eat enough of it to support Switzerland all by myself)! Hee hee.

You're completely misinformed about Switzerland.

The Wall Street Journal's Index of Economic Freedom ... the most authoritative voice on the subject ... has consistently rated Switzerland among the ten most free economies in the world ... out of 180 countries being rated.

Switzerland is a model of low-tax, low-regulation, free-market capitalism ... which accounts for it's substantial prosperity.

And honestly ... if you can be intellectually honest ... doesn't it amaze you that Switzerland is synonymous with chocolate ... a tropical product? Have you ever stopped to think of why that's possible ... and why people like the Palestinians don't attempt to replicate Switzerland's lawfulness, honesty, integrity, and tolerance?

Switzerland is a home for criminals. More money is laudered there than anywhere in the world. Case closed.

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

You're completely misinformed about Switzerland.



Switzerland is a model of low-tax, low-regulation, free-market capitalism ... which accounts for it's substantial prosperity.

yes prosperity. Yassir Arafats billions are in some account in good ole Switzerland. Low-regulation you bet your bippy... Best place in the world to hide illegally made money.

I say let Israel do what the hell they want. If they want to bomb the hell out of those countries and create Lake Israel in doing so, more power to them!!!

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

You're completely misinformed about Switzerland.

The Wall Street Journal's Index of Economic Freedom ... the most authoritative voice on the subject ... has consistently rated Switzerland among the ten most free economies in the world ... out of 180 countries being rated.

Switzerland is a model of low-tax, low-regulation, free-market capitalism ... which accounts for it's substantial prosperity.

And honestly ... if you can be intellectually honest ... doesn't it amaze you that Switzerland is synonymous with chocolate ... a tropical product? Have you ever stopped to think of why that's possible ... and why people like the Palestinians don't attempt to replicate Switzerland's lawfulness, honesty, integrity, and tolerance?

You're right and I'm wrong on the tax thing. And props to them for taxing investment income at the same rate as earned icome!

But honestly, I associate them more with watches than chocolate.

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

You're right and I'm wrong on the tax thing. And props to them for taxing investment income at the same rate as earned income!

But honestly, I associate them more with watches than chocolate.

Well stated ... but ...

... if the question were ... "Name a country associated with chocolate?" ... what would the survey say?

Switzerland, Holland, and Belgium ... all northern European countries ... nowhere near the tropics where cocoa is grown ... would probably lead the list. Isn't that remarkable?

Now let's see the Palestinians create their own "chocolate" ... from their beautiful land on the Mediterranean shore. But first they have to stop killing each other ... and hating everyone else.

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Disagree!

So the British give over Palestine so there could be a Zionist state under UN protection in 1948. Hey! Palistinians, get out of here! It's ours now.

In the 5th Century AD ... Aquileia ... located where the east coast of the Italian peninsula meets the mainland ... was the second largest port in the Roman Empire ... second only to Ostia, the port of Rome.

But then the Huns came swooping out of the Asian steppes ... plundering, pillaging, and murdering everyone before them. The Aquileians fled in alarm out into the swamps ... the only place where the horses of the Huns couldn't follow them.

They were chased from their homes ... and isolated on mosquito-ridden islets in the middle of the swamps, marshes, and lagoons of the Adriatic Sea. They made the best of this dreadful situation ... turning to the sea for sustenance and economic opportunity.

But soon the world stood in awe of these isolated, battered refugees from Aquileia ... as they built their new home ... a city they called Venezia ... known to us as Venice.

If the Aquileians could build the Venetian Empire ... the most powerful and prosperous society of the late Middle Ages and the Rinascente ... and still the most beautiful city in the world ... after being chased into the malarial swamps of the Adriatic ... why can't the Palestinians build a successful society in their new homeland ... on a beautiful stretch of the sun-lapped shores of the Mediterranean?

Stop making excuses for these hate-filled, murderous people ... because ...

... because in doing so ... it only reveals your deep hatred of the Jewish people.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

In the 5th Century AD ... Aquileia ... located where the east coast of the Italian peninsula meets the mainland ... was the second largest port in the Roman Empire ... second only to Ostia, the port of Rome.

But then the Huns came swooping out of the Asian steppes ... plundering, pillaging, and murdering everyone before them. The Aquileians fled in alarm out into the swamps ... the only place where the horses of the Huns couldn't follow them.

They were chased from their homes ... and isolated on mosquito-ridden islets in the middle of the swamps, marshes, and lagoons of the Adriatic Sea. They made the best of this dreadful situation ... turning to the sea for sustenance and economic opportunity.

But soon the world stood in awe of these isolated, battered refugees from Aquileia ... as they built their new home ... a city they called Venezia ... known to us as Venice.

If the Aquileians could build the Venetian Empire ... the most powerful and prosperous society of the late Middle Ages and the Rinascente ... and still the most beautiful city in the world ... after being chased into the malarial swamps of the Adriatic ... why can't the Palestinians build a successful society in their new homeland ... on a beautiful stretch of the sun-lapped shores of the Mediterranean?

Stop making excuses for these hate-filled, murderous people ... because ...

... because in doing so ... it only reveals your deep hatred of the Jewish people.

Man, you got me wrong.
I like Jewish people, some of my best friends.
btw...the reason that the Venetians became so successful was that they cut a deal to trade with the Muslims despite Constantine's edict.
We know how that worked out.
Greek fire and all...

I really hate no one.
Peace.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

In the 5th Century AD ... Aquileia ... located where the east coast of the Italian peninsula meets the mainland ... was the second largest port in the Roman Empire ... second only to Ostia, the port of Rome.

But then the Huns came swooping out of the Asian steppes ... plundering, pillaging, and murdering everyone before them. The Aquileians fled in alarm out into the swamps ... the only place where the horses of the Huns couldn't follow them.

They were chased from their homes ... and isolated on mosquito-ridden islets in the middle of the swamps, marshes, and lagoons of the Adriatic Sea. They made the best of this dreadful situation ... turning to the sea for sustenance and economic opportunity.

But soon the world stood in awe of these isolated, battered refugees from Aquileia ... as they built their new home ... a city they called Venezia ... known to us as Venice.

If the Aquileians could build the Venetian Empire ... the most powerful and prosperous society of the late Middle Ages and the Rinascente ... and still the most beautiful city in the world ... after being chased into the malarial swamps of the Adriatic ... why can't the Palestinians build a successful society in their new homeland ... on a beautiful stretch of the sun-lapped shores of the Mediterranean?

Stop making excuses for these hate-filled, murderous people ... because ...

... because in doing so ... it only reveals your deep hatred of the Jewish people.

i wonder how much dialogue is stifled because people don't want to be accused of 'hating' someone they disagree with....how much of a free pass does israel get because of just what you finished your post with? no one wants to be accused of hating, so how much silence is there? israel should always be allowed to do whatever it wants, because any disagreement means only one thing?? anti-semitism? that's ridiculous. how britain, the us, or anyone else thought that giving the land to israel 50-some years ago would actually work is beyond me. how much of the extreme hate directed towards the U.S. by arab countries is due to our support of israel??? a ton of it.

Originally Posted by Danzig188

i wonder how much dialogue is stifled because people don't how britain, the us, or anyone else thought that giving the land to israel 50-some years ago would actually work is beyond me. how much of the extreme hate directed towards the U.S. by arab countries is due to our support of israel??? a ton of it.

The land wasn't "given" to Israel ... the land WAS Israel.

And speaking of occupation ... don't Arabs belong in Arabia ... and aren't all the Arabs in north Africa, the Levant, and Mesopotamia there because they conquered those lands with bloody swords?

When are the Arabs going to return to their homeland in Arabia ... and end the occupation of all the lands they brutally conquered?

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

The land wasn't "given" to Israel ... the land WAS Israel.

And speaking of occupation ... don't Arabs belong in Arabia ... and aren't all the Arabs in north Africa, the Levant, and Mesopotamia there because they conquered those lands with bloody swords?

When are the Arabs going to return to their homeland in Arabia ... and end the occupation of all the lands they brutally conquered?

Bold Brooklynite,
I don't mean to cause continued controversy. And I really don't have anything against Jewish people.
I simply ask if your claim that the land was "given" to Israel is based on Genesis 35:10-12?
DTS

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Bold Brooklynite,
I don't mean to cause continued controversy. And I really don't have anything against Jewish people.
I simply ask if your claim that the land was "given" to Israel is based on Genesis 35:10-12?
DTS

You misread what I wrote ...

... I said the land wasn't "given" to Israel ... the land was Israel ... meaning that this group of Canaanites were the first civilized people to inhabit that particular stretch of land ... they didn't conquer it by killing and forcing other civilizations off it.

The Arabs who occupy north Africa, the Levant, and Mesopotamia today are there because they killed and conquered previous civilizations who lived in those places. The Arabs have a homeland in Arabia ... and that's where they belong.