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  #1  
Old 03-27-2007, 11:29 AM
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Kasept Kasept is offline
Steve Byk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjf1031
If jockey chose to go outside yet horse still ran SS to a nose decision, how does that not make it a superior race. Have to agree with JJP
Don't know why anyone would try to separate 'the superior race' from between Any Given Saturday and Street Sense at Tampa or what is accomplished in trying to do so...

Saturday had the advantagve of a race over the surface and 2nd/start off the layoff... Street Sense had the disadvantage of first start off a 100+ day layoff and a trip over the slower part of the track... Saturday lost some ground on the turn and Street saved some... They arrived at the wire together. Equally terrific performances and neither deserves to be identified as 'superior'.

They each were superb and they both exit the race as worthy of praise and expectations of ongoing excellence this campaign.
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Last edited by Kasept : 03-27-2007 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 03-27-2007, 11:36 AM
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Payson Dave Payson Dave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept
Don't know why anyone would try to seperate 'the superior race' from between Any Given Saturday and Street Sense at Tampa or what is accomplished in trying to do so...

Saturday had the advantagve of a race over the surface and 2nd/start off the layoff... Street Sense had the disadvantage of first start off a 100+ day layoff and a trip over the slower part of the track... Saturday lost some ground on the turn and Street saved some... They arrived at the wire together. Equally terrific performances and neither deserves to be identified as 'superior'.

They each were superb and they both exit the race as worthy of praise and expectations of ongoing excellence this campaign.
I see the above post as viewing the glass as half full rather alot of posts lately as trying to make a case for the glass being half empty...IMHO both performances were very good but for different reasons.
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Old 03-27-2007, 11:55 AM
jjf1031 jjf1031 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept
Don't know why anyone would try to seperate 'the superior race' from between Any Given Saturday and Street Sense at Tampa or what is accomplished in trying to do so...

Saturday had the advantagve of a race over the surface and 2nd/start off the layoff... Street Sense had the disadvantage of first start off a 100+ day layoff and a trip over the slower part of the track... Saturday lost some ground on the turn and Street saved some... They arrived at the wire together. Equally terrific performances and neither deserves to be identified as 'superior'.

They each were superb and they both exit the race as worthy of praise and expectations of ongoing excellence this campaign.
Steve

I was just making the comment that jockey decision to go outside on AGS does not lower the effort he put in. If anything it makes it stronger that he overcame the decision
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Old 03-27-2007, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jjf1031
Steve

I was just making the comment that jockey decision to go outside on AGS does not lower the effort he put in. If anything it makes it stronger that he overcame the decision
jjf,

Agree.. I'd also say that Johnny V's constant over/under shoulder glancing to watch for Street Sense worked against Any Given Saturday.. Takes a horse and rider out of their rhythm..
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All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad
A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine
Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984.

Last edited by Kasept : 03-27-2007 at 12:33 PM.
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  #5  
Old 03-27-2007, 01:01 PM
pgardn
 
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Originally Posted by Kasept
jjf,

Agree.. I'd also say that Johnny V's constant over/under shoulder glancing to watch for Street Sense worked against Any Given Saturday.. Takes a horse and rider out of their rhythm..
This is something I really dont like jocks to do with younger horses. JV is very good, but I have seen him do this before and the horse quits paying attention to his purpose. I know JV needs to make a decision on what to do, and maybe he is experimenting (if the horse will keep on task), but I have seen horses lose their concentration and rythym based on what they feel the jockey doing up top.

Some of these horses are not cars that will just keep going while you glance around, even with foot on pedal.
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Old 03-27-2007, 01:09 PM
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Kasept Kasept is offline
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Originally Posted by pgardn
This is something I really dont like jocks to do with younger horses. JV is very good, but I have seen him do this before and the horse quits paying attention to his purpose. I know JV needs to make a decision on what to do, and maybe he is experimenting (if the horse will keep on task), but I have seen horses lose their concentration and rythym based on what they feel the jockey doing up top.

Some of these horses are not cars that will just keep going while you glance around, even with foot on pedal.
P,

It's more than losing focus too.. There's the matter of distribution of weight. When a jock shifts his body or shoulders to sneak a peak, it changes the balance above and causes a horse a loss of fluidity or action that is measureable ultimately in lost ground. When you talk about losing photos by the width of a piece of paper, it becomes important.. Velasquez looked 4 times for Street Sense on and out of the turn.

The point is: "Ride YOUR horse.. don't try to ride your opponents."

Or as Woody Allen said in "Love and Death" (I think).. "My Uncle Vladimir, not a smart man, but, you know, wise.. always said, 'You can't ride two horses with one tuchas.'"
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All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad
A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine
Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984.
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  #7  
Old 03-27-2007, 01:23 PM
pgardn
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept
P,

It's more than losing focus too.. There's the matter of distribution of weight. When a jock shifts his body or shoulders to sneak a peak, it changes the balance above and causes a horse a loss of fluidity or action that is measureable ultimately in lost ground. When you talk about losing photos by the width of a piece of paper, it becomes important.. Velasquez looked 4 times for Street Sense on and out of the turn.

The point is: "Ride YOUR horse.. don't try to ride your opponents."

Or as Woody Allen said in "Love and Death" (I think).. "My Uncle Vladimir, not a smart man, but, you know, wise.. always said, 'You can't ride two horses with one tuchas.'"
Oh it is very evident to me that weight shifting, even subtle, can make a large difference in a horse. I watched my wife many hours in dressage lessons and hunter-jumper shows (bored stiff). I was just thinking that maybe JV is so good that the horse might not feel JV's weight shift while looking around, maybe he has perfected it. I dont know, Im not a jock, and I know the guy is very good at what he does. So I am careful to question his tactics.
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