Smarty Jones Classic

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I dont know why you guys are down on this horse. won is first 8 starts including the Kentucky Derby and Preakness. won 7.6 million dollars. only loss was that gut wrenching belmont stakes where he showed as much courage as any horse has recently (besides Barbaro and his fight to live - but that was different). What else was he supposed to do?

Then he was retired, but thats not the horses fault, and it turned out he was actually injured. He brought some good people like John Service and Stewert Elliot some fame and ignited horse racing in PA.

I dont know what more we can ask from that champ. So what if he wasnt burning up tracks with track records and wouldnt be considered the "best of all time". The "best of all time" arguments are garbage anyway. Different things happen every year and there is no point comparing a horse that ran in 2004 to a horse that ran in 1989, 1973 or 1921. Just a waste of time.

Smarty did a lot for horse racing in 2004, he will undoubtedly be inducted into the horsey hall of fame and he is a great story and hopefully will sire some good horses.

The amount of money he won is dramatically skewed by the $5 million bonus....but you knew that.

He will not " undoubtably be inducted " into the Hall of Fame. In fact, he should never be, and most likely will never be. Hell, we have people on this board arguing against Silver Charm, and while I can see both sides, he accomplished basically everything Smarty accomplished....and a whole lot more. To be honest, this is exactly the kind of distortions people have about Smarty Jones that wear me out.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The amount of money he won is dramatically skewed by the $5 million bonus....but you knew that.

He will not " undoubtably be inducted " into the Hall of Fame. In fact, he should never be, and most likely will never be. Hell, we have people on this board arguing against Silver Charm, and while I can see both sides, he accomplished basically everything Smarty accomplished....and a whole lot more. To be honest, this is exactly the kind of distortions people have about Smarty Jones that wear me out.

that 5 mill bonus still counted towards his earnings and was a big accomplishment. yes it dramatically increased his earnings, but Oaklawn laid the deal on the table and Smarty/Service/Elliot went out there and accomplished it.

I guess you and I differ about the HOF, I really believe he will be in there some day. Do you think Barbaro ever has a chance to be in the HOF?

[robfla]

speaking of the HOF - isnt the HOF process awful?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by robfla

speaking of the HOF - isnt the HOF process awful?

It's much better now that they have made it harder to get in. Whatever led to Mike Smith's induction had to be stopped!

[blackthroatedwind]

And, while we are on the subject, Real Quiet has better credentials for the Hall of Fame than both Smarty Jones and Barbaro.

When do you foresee his induction? How about Charismatic? His are equivalent. War Emblem as well.

[Mortimer]

I 've always felt ,very strongly, that Dollar Bill and Victory Gall.........


...oh there I go again.








I'm sorry ,sir.

It won't happen again.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

And, while we are on the subject, Real Quiet has better credentials for the Hall of Fame than both Smarty Jones and Barbaro.

When do you foresee his induction? How about Charismatic? His are equivalent. War Emblem as well.

Real Quiet, Charismatic and War Emblem were not undefeated heading into the Triple Crown. If you remember, Smarty Jones and Barbaro were the only undefeated winners of the KY Derby since oh whats his name, that good horse back in the 70's? Oh yea, Seattle Slew. And there have only been three other horses to win the KY Derby while undefeated (and I had to look this up) Majestic Prince, Morvich, and Regret. Smarty and Barbaro are in pretty good company.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I think it is a bit much to be comparing either Smarty or Barbaro do those you have mentioned. I understand the point you are making but they aren't in those horses league.

You are correct, because of the other horses' accomplishments after the triple crown. SJ and Barbaro were never able to race after the Triple Crown, so who knows.

Still if you ever see a list naming the undefeated winners of the K Derby, those are the 6 horses on the list. SJ and Barbaro accomplished what they did to deserve being on that list.

Undefeated Derby Winners
2006: Barbaro (6-0)

2004: Smarty Jones (7-0)

1977: Seattle Slew (7-0)

1969: Majestic Prince (8-0)

1922: Morvich (12-0)

1915: Regret (4-0)

http://www.49abcnews.com/news/2006/m...cky_derby_win/

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

that 5 mill bonus still counted towards his earnings and was a big accomplishment. yes it dramatically increased his earnings, but Oaklawn laid the deal on the table and Smarty/Service/Elliot went out there and accomplished it.

I guess you and I differ about the HOF, I really believe he will be in there some day. Do you think Barbaro ever has a chance to be in the HOF?

Look, the Hall of Fame has serious credibility issues, and recently has taken steps to change things. I hardly think they want to make themselves a bigger joke now by opening their doors to horses who accomplished little while generating a great deal of hype.

Perhaps Smarty Jones could be given the Mortimerdexterfoxworthy Award for fooling the most people in the shortest period of time.

And, honestly, don't be ridiculous about Barbaro. Seriously, while you are in Saratoga, you need to take a good look at some of the actual accomplishments of horses in the Hall of Fame. These horses you are talking about are laughable in comparison to the deserving names over there.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Look, the Hall of Fame has serious credibility issues, and recently has taken steps to change things. I hardly think they want to make themselves a bigger joke now by opening their doors to horses who accomplished little while generating a great deal of hype.

Perhaps Smarty Jones could be given the Mortimerdexterfoxworthy Award for fooling the most people in the shortest period of time.

And, honestly, don't be ridiculous about Barbaro. Seriously, while you are in Saratoga, you need to take a good look at some of the actual accomplishments of horses in the Hall of Fame. These horses you are talking about are laughable in comparison to the deserving names over there.

I understand your point about the HOF, but with how horse racing has been this decade, every horse is retired once they make it "big time". Do you really think none of these horses will make it into the HOF? They are all accomplishing "little" because they are taken to stud, with a few exceptions like Tiznow. (Lava Man has been accomplishing "a lot" because he's a gelding.. is he HOF worthy.. i dont know). Ghostzapper, Smarty, Afleet Alex, Point Given, etc. all taken to the shed when they could have had the chance to accomplish a lot more. At least Mineshaft ran an amazing 18 times. The game is changing so maybe the HOF requirements will be different.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I understand your point about the HOF, but with how horse racing has been this decade, every horse is retired once they make it "big time". Do you really think none of these horses will make it into the HOF? They are all accomplishing "little" because they are taken to stud, with a few exceptions like Tiznow. (Lava Man has been accomplishing "a lot" because he's a gelding.. is he HOF worthy.. i dont know). Ghostzapper, Smarty, Afleet Alex, Point Given, etc. all taken to the shed when they could have had the chance to accomplish a lot more. At least Mineshaft ran an amazing 18 times. The game is changing so maybe the HOF requirements will be different.

Andy, will you please comment on this post i have quoted. Will there ever be horses worthy of the HOF in the future because of long careers. there are no long careers anymore, at least for horses that win 2 or more triple crown races. How will this change the HOF?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Andy, will you please comment on this post i have quoted. Will there ever be horses worthy of the HOF in the future because of long careers. there are no long careers anymore, at least for horses that win 2 or more triple crown races. How will this change the HOF?

I would hope not. When horses start getting in the Hall of Fame for what might have been they should tear the place down.

I can just hear the speech " Smartest Jones would have been a GREAT horse, even better than his Daddy, had he not blown a suspensory in his second start. Many people, some who have even been around racing late in the 20th century, claimed his debut was the best they have seen since Proud Accolade....who by the way is another fine entrant into the Hall of Fame today ".


You earn the right to be placed alongside the greats through accomplishment. If for whatever reason a horse is retired before compiling a substantial resume it should not get in. Ever.

[randallscott35]

Once again, a 4yr old season at a minimum matters. Do what the Bid did and then come talk to me...Keep all horses out of the HOF except those that can't be argued.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I would hope not. When horses start getting in the Hall of Fame for what might have been they should tear the place down.

I can just hear the speech " Smartest Jones would have been a GREAT horse, even better than his Daddy, had he not blown a suspensory in his second start. Many people, some who have even been around racing late in the 20th century, claimed his debut was the best they have seen since Proud Accolade....who by the way is another fine entrant into the Hall of Fame today ".


You earn the right to be placed alongside the greats through accomplishment. If for whatever reason a horse is retired before compiling a substantial resume it should not get in. Ever.

thanks for the answer. it looks like there will never be another derby winner in the HOF.

Speaking of great ones. Bob fox is up next talking about Phar Lap and the Diva from Austrailia. should be interesting