Smarty Jones Classic

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

being from the south, i dont think you can understand the buzz that smarty created in the north east that great summer of 04

Maybe not... OR, maybe it has something to do with my age. Easy Goer got me into racing and I think that he would have put Smarty to shame, but that's JMO.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Maybe not... OR, maybe it has something to do with my age. Easy Goer got me into racing and I think that he would have put Smarty to shame, but that's JMO.

I dont know why you guys are down on this horse. won is first 8 starts including the Kentucky Derby and Preakness. won 7.6 million dollars. only loss was that gut wrenching belmont stakes where he showed as much courage as any horse has recently (besides Barbaro and his fight to live - but that was different). What else was he supposed to do?

Then he was retired, but thats not the horses fault, and it turned out he was actually injured. He brought some good people like John Service and Stewert Elliot some fame and ignited horse racing in PA.

I dont know what more we can ask from that champ. So what if he wasnt burning up tracks with track records and wouldnt be considered the "best of all time". The "best of all time" arguments are garbage anyway. Different things happen every year and there is no point comparing a horse that ran in 2004 to a horse that ran in 1989, 1973 or 1921. Just a waste of time.

Smarty did a lot for horse racing in 2004, he will undoubtedly be inducted into the horsey hall of fame and he is a great story and hopefully will sire some good horses.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I dont know why you guys are down on this horse. won is first 8 starts including the Kentucky Derby and Preakness. won 7.6 million dollars. only loss was that gut wrenching belmont stakes where he showed as much courage as any horse has recently (besides Barbaro and his fight to live - but that was different). What else was he supposed to do?

Then he was retired, but thats not the horses fault, and it turned out he was actually injured. He brought some good people like John Service and Stewert Elliot some fame and ignited horse racing in PA.

I dont know what more we can ask from that champ. So what if he wasnt burning up tracks with track records and wouldnt be considered the "best of all time". The "best of all time" arguments are garbage anyway. Different things happen every year and there is no point comparing a horse that ran in 2004 to a horse that ran in 1989, 1973 or 1921. Just a waste of time.

Smarty did a lot for horse racing in 2004, he will undoubtedly be inducted into the horsey hall of fame and he is a great story and hopefully will sire some good horses.

The amount of money he won is dramatically skewed by the $5 million bonus....but you knew that.

He will not " undoubtably be inducted " into the Hall of Fame. In fact, he should never be, and most likely will never be. Hell, we have people on this board arguing against Silver Charm, and while I can see both sides, he accomplished basically everything Smarty accomplished....and a whole lot more. To be honest, this is exactly the kind of distortions people have about Smarty Jones that wear me out.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The amount of money he won is dramatically skewed by the $5 million bonus....but you knew that.

He will not " undoubtably be inducted " into the Hall of Fame. In fact, he should never be, and most likely will never be. Hell, we have people on this board arguing against Silver Charm, and while I can see both sides, he accomplished basically everything Smarty accomplished....and a whole lot more. To be honest, this is exactly the kind of distortions people have about Smarty Jones that wear me out.

that 5 mill bonus still counted towards his earnings and was a big accomplishment. yes it dramatically increased his earnings, but Oaklawn laid the deal on the table and Smarty/Service/Elliot went out there and accomplished it.

I guess you and I differ about the HOF, I really believe he will be in there some day. Do you think Barbaro ever has a chance to be in the HOF?

[robfla]

speaking of the HOF - isnt the HOF process awful?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by robfla

speaking of the HOF - isnt the HOF process awful?

It's much better now that they have made it harder to get in. Whatever led to Mike Smith's induction had to be stopped!

[blackthroatedwind]

And, while we are on the subject, Real Quiet has better credentials for the Hall of Fame than both Smarty Jones and Barbaro.

When do you foresee his induction? How about Charismatic? His are equivalent. War Emblem as well.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

that 5 mill bonus still counted towards his earnings and was a big accomplishment. yes it dramatically increased his earnings, but Oaklawn laid the deal on the table and Smarty/Service/Elliot went out there and accomplished it.

I guess you and I differ about the HOF, I really believe he will be in there some day. Do you think Barbaro ever has a chance to be in the HOF?

Look, the Hall of Fame has serious credibility issues, and recently has taken steps to change things. I hardly think they want to make themselves a bigger joke now by opening their doors to horses who accomplished little while generating a great deal of hype.

Perhaps Smarty Jones could be given the Mortimerdexterfoxworthy Award for fooling the most people in the shortest period of time.

And, honestly, don't be ridiculous about Barbaro. Seriously, while you are in Saratoga, you need to take a good look at some of the actual accomplishments of horses in the Hall of Fame. These horses you are talking about are laughable in comparison to the deserving names over there.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Look, the Hall of Fame has serious credibility issues, and recently has taken steps to change things. I hardly think they want to make themselves a bigger joke now by opening their doors to horses who accomplished little while generating a great deal of hype.

Perhaps Smarty Jones could be given the Mortimerdexterfoxworthy Award for fooling the most people in the shortest period of time.

And, honestly, don't be ridiculous about Barbaro. Seriously, while you are in Saratoga, you need to take a good look at some of the actual accomplishments of horses in the Hall of Fame. These horses you are talking about are laughable in comparison to the deserving names over there.

I understand your point about the HOF, but with how horse racing has been this decade, every horse is retired once they make it "big time". Do you really think none of these horses will make it into the HOF? They are all accomplishing "little" because they are taken to stud, with a few exceptions like Tiznow. (Lava Man has been accomplishing "a lot" because he's a gelding.. is he HOF worthy.. i dont know). Ghostzapper, Smarty, Afleet Alex, Point Given, etc. all taken to the shed when they could have had the chance to accomplish a lot more. At least Mineshaft ran an amazing 18 times. The game is changing so maybe the HOF requirements will be different.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I understand your point about the HOF, but with how horse racing has been this decade, every horse is retired once they make it "big time". Do you really think none of these horses will make it into the HOF? They are all accomplishing "little" because they are taken to stud, with a few exceptions like Tiznow. (Lava Man has been accomplishing "a lot" because he's a gelding.. is he HOF worthy.. i dont know). Ghostzapper, Smarty, Afleet Alex, Point Given, etc. all taken to the shed when they could have had the chance to accomplish a lot more. At least Mineshaft ran an amazing 18 times. The game is changing so maybe the HOF requirements will be different.

Andy, will you please comment on this post i have quoted. Will there ever be horses worthy of the HOF in the future because of long careers. there are no long careers anymore, at least for horses that win 2 or more triple crown races. How will this change the HOF?

Just to add to Blackthroated wonderful story of Bold Forbes:

Looks like at 2 he won the Saratoga Special S. (G2), Tremont S., and Clasico Dia de Los Padres (PR). I'm guessing he won the latter race earlier and then came to the Saratoga meet.

At 3, he won the San Jacinto S. (G2) and the Bay Shore S. (G3) prior to running/winning in the Wood. I dont know if San J. is in P.R. or what, maybe went back there to run..?

Then, after the TC...

he Ran 2ND San Miguel S.
and 3RD Vosburgh H. (G2) and San Vicente S. (G3)

Im guessing these were after the T.C. Hunter's book doesnt mention them and the Pedigree site doesnt specify, since Hunter mentions the San Jacinto and Bay Shore as preceeding the Wood I would guess the latter three were after the Wood. HUnter implies he was retired at 3.

He finished with 18 Starts: 13 - 1 - 4, $546,536; very nice.

[blackthroatedwind]

Thanks. I must have been wrong about the Special being his first NY start as the Tremont, I believe, has always preceded Saratoga. I have a lot of those charts and will take a look.

Yes! He won the Tremont on July 24th by five lengths over Iron Bit in 1:09 2/5. It was another nine lengths back to the third finisher. He paid $5.40 as the second choice to Iron Bit who was 4:5.

[Linny]

I haven't read all this but why does anyone care of a PA Bred race is being named after one of the most notable PA breds of recent vinatge?

As far as calling it a "classic" well the Sunshine Millions Classic was so named it's first year, as was the BC Classic and the Empire Classic. "Classic" has come to imply a race for 3+ usually at 9f featuring the best within it's category.

As far as naming races for people, why not? Laz deserves a race. I have no idea who Harrison Johnson or Leonard Richards or Robert Carpenter are but they all have races. I would be idiotic to imply that any are undeserving, not knowing who they were.