Any Given Saturday

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by pgardn

YOu were there. So you had a better view. Watch the race replays, dude. You can view them more than once. The race was over way before the finish line... are you serious? Heart? WTF? You want him to set a track record in an early derby prep.in Tampa. These horses have enough trouble making it to the Derby and you want a blow out in an early prep race? I dont need a chart I watched the race, and I just watched it again. The race was over... Heart? How in God's name from that race can you state this horse has no heart?

He has no heart because he barely beat a pool of marginal NW1x'ers; most of which had no business in this race..That's why. If you want to see what a champion performs like, watch Bluegrass Cat in last year's SFD...

[ManilaRose]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

He has no heart because he barely beat a pool of marginal NW1x'ers; most of which had no business in this race..That's why. If you want to see what a champion performs like, watch Bluegrass Cat in last year's SFD...

First let me say I thought it was an ok performance. That being said the Derby's in May at Churchill, not February at Tampa. Second, to say he barely won this race is comical and deserves no more time spent on the comment than this. Lastly, I was unaware a horse's heart is measured by the margin of victory against inferior horses who at no point made the race interesting enough of a challenge for AGS to call on heart. Horses win with ability and heart. Some races you need one, some races you need both. Heart certainly wasn't necessary in this race.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I thought Sun King's win in the Tampa Derby was totally awful.

As a 1/20 favorite, against a VERY soft field at level weight, he got to dilly dally on the lead through soft fractions, some soon to be claimer named Forever Wild took a pretty good run at him on the far turn, before SK shrugged him off and won by 3 in unimpressive time. His figure that day shouldn't be that much more than what AGS will get.

SK had a pretty nice comeback race at a one-turn mile one start prior. Tampa's always been a funny track. If anyone remembers last year, a pair of horses (Seek Gold and Take D' Tour) who got soundly beaten at the '06 Tampa meet---both won Grade 1 races on the same day...just a few months later.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by ManilaRose

First let me say I thought it was an ok performance. That being said the Derby's in May at Churchill, not February at Tampa. Second, to say he barely won this race is comical and deserves no more time spent on the comment than this. Lastly, I was unaware a horse's heart is measured by the margin of victory against inferior horses who at no point made the race interesting enough of a challenge for AGS to call on heart. Horses win with ability and heart. Some races you need one, some races you need both. Heart certainly wasn't necessary in this race.

In hindsight, I imagine it was a bit harsh to question this horse's ability/heart based on one race. In rereading some of my posts, I picked up on a bit of vitrol that I normally refrain from....Guess I was severely disappointed by the effort, even though early on the DT, over a quirky track....just expected that AGS should have shown a lot more than what he did against this field... This "hand ride in the stretch" that some refer to was against a horse with a career average beyer of 60.6 over 6 starts - his best a 76....to draw off by 2 and a half lengths againts this class of horse might impress someone, but fell well short of my expectations of him.
Perhaps that's all part of Pletcher's plan for him...Who knows?

[blackthroatedwind]

Well, he got a 95 Beyer number, so I guess I must have underrated his performance.

I really on disliked him because DrugS is so high on him.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Well, he got a 95 Beyer number, so I guess I must have underrated his performance.

I really on disliked him because DrugS is so high on him.

That's hard to believe.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

That's hard to believe.

That was my reaction.

[NTamm1215]

I've avoided this thread because I'm a HUGE Any Given Saturday fan, as I was completely taken by his allowance win at Keeneland last fall.

As far as yesterday's performance I knew there were a number of built-in reasons to discredit it. The first and foremost was that the field really wasn't good. I made James Wilfred the 2nd best in the race but was not surprised to see him beaten pretty handily despite finishing 3rd. However, it is imperative to remember that this was a February stake race at Tampa where a solid Pletcher horse was pointed to for a while- did you think anybody with a well-meant horse would show up?

I think, all in all, the performance was about what you'd expect off a layoff. Was it dynamic? No. Did it make me think he was a solid pick or worthy of the low price he went off last week in Pool 1? No. Most importantly, do most Derby winners make themselves clear in February? No.

It's the first step on a three-race plan to get him to the big day and I think he did what the connections would have wanted.

NT

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I've avoided this thread because I'm a HUGE Any Given Saturday fan, as I was completely taken by his allowance win at Keeneland last fall.

As far as yesterday's performance I knew there were a number of built-in reasons to discredit it. The first and foremost was that the field really wasn't good. I made James Wilfred the 2nd best in the race but was not surprised to see him beaten pretty handily despite finishing 3rd. However, it is imperative to remember that this was a February stake race at Tampa where a solid Pletcher horse was pointed to for a while- did you think anybody with a well-meant horse would show up?

I think, all in all, the performance was about what you'd expect off a layoff. Was it dynamic? No. Did it make me think he was a solid pick or worthy of the low price he went off last week in Pool 1? No. Most importantly, do most Derby winners make themselves clear in February? No.

It's the first step on a three-race plan to get him to the big day and I think he did what the connections would have wanted.

NT

I agree, not sure what Pletcher thinks though. But some people will see a 95 and then he throws a 93 running a better race... and he's regressing. These numbers are getting bad enough to be comparable to QB ratings.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Well, he got a 95 Beyer number, so I guess I must have underrated his performance.

I really on disliked him because DrugS is so high on him.

Beyer's can be a bag full of bull pucky and I think this shows it. This number had to come due to the early races where horses on the lead held easily. Maybe because he had a small amount of difficulty early, but I dont know what they use to determine these numbers anymore. I dont read 95 into that run. Maybe cause he shut down early.

I still say the horse should be a mid pack runner, who comes late. The fact that he was up front was competition induced. 95 for a long workout I dont see.