Any Given Saturday

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

He's probably a nice horse, and maybe he will step forward, but don't kid yourselves about today's effort as it was VERY pedestrian. Take a good look at the pps of the second finisher.....as well as the rest of the field. It was a ridiculous bunch.

Pedestrian... And what would you have expected?

This is a Derby prep in Tampa... He ran the race up front, unlike his other races, and finished going away easily, as he has done before. So you wanted a track record?

[Gander]

Derby preps in general are so overrated. I dont understand all the attention they get. I had as much interest in this race as a harness race.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Just got in from TBD and have to say that at 1-9 (bought down to 1-5) expected a lot more from him... The field was sad (Last year Deputy Glitters at least showed up @ 40-1) the only horse that looked on paper to be worthy of the field was the 4 ( Monster something...) and He's never seen a mile + in his life...Local fave gets 2nd under Lezcano and puts up a great effort.

saddest moment of the day was Zito trotting out Superfly in a 19k allowance...The horse looked like it needed an ambulance to get to the finish line in the paddock...didn't stop "Tampa Faithful" from sending him off @ 6-5....Obviously never hit the board....

[Gander]

I wasnt attacking anyone, just laughing at the quality that we've seen from Tampa preps. Its a track where horses either love or hate it. Hard to gauge a horse's talent from any race run on it. Deputy Glitters looked like a rocketship on it last year and he never amounted to much. Toy track.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Pedestrian... And what would you have expected?

This is a Derby prep in Tampa... He ran the race up front, unlike his other races, and finished going away easily, as he has done before. So you wanted a track record?

I don't " want " anything. I do, however, like it when people get their facts straight, especially when making some foolish attack towards me. Perhaps you should look at the pps of his last race.....where he was closer to the lead than he was today.

Regardless of what you may want to think, he was unimpressive today. I don't recall it being suggested this performance was a bad sign, or a perfect indication of his ability, but merely a very unremarkable performance by a horse generating a ton of hype.

Sorry if somehow you feel a member of your family was insulted.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

especially when making some foolish attack towards me. Perhaps you should look at the pps of his last race.....where he was closer to the lead than he was today.


Sorry if somehow you feel a member of your family was insulted.

Ouch. A little touchy in the membership. Has somebody been attacking this poster? And then to get into family????

Why dont you watch his race and Keeneland and get back with me. You can pick any race you want as representative. I think the Keeneland race is how the horse will run.

And again I ask, what did YOU want to see if he was unimpressive?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Ouch. A little touchy in the membership. Has somebody been attacking this poster? And then to get into family????

Why dont you watch his race and Keeneland and get back with me. You can pick any race you want as representative. I think the Keeneland race is how the horse will run.

And again I ask, what did YOU want to see if he was unimpressive?

My favorite kind of poster....somebody who alters other's comments and then twists their response to suit their own desperate needs.

Here is what YOU said...

" He ran the race up front, unlike his other races, and finished going away easily "

I somehow don't think pointing out that he was closer in his previous effort, especially as that was far and away his best effort, was particularly unreasonable.

Once again, however, I gave my opinion of his performance today. Just because you have some need to attack me doesn't mean I need to further my comments to suit your needs. If you don't like my opinions feel free to put me on ignore. I happen to find it curious that in spite of the fact that others said similar things to me it was me that you chose to call out.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

My favorite kind of poster....somebody who alters other's comments and then twists their response to suit their own desperate needs.

Here is what YOU said...

" He ran the race up front, unlike his other races, and finished going away easily "

I somehow don't think pointing out that he was closer in his previous effort, especially as that was far and away his best effort, was particularly unreasonable.

Once again, however, I gave my opinion of his performance today. Just because you have some need to attack me doesn't mean I need to further my comments to suit your needs. If you don't like my opinions feel free to put me on ignore. I happen to find it curious that in spite of the fact that others said similar things to me it was me that you chose to call out.

Okay I attacked you viciously like a pit bull. I apologize.

I dont think this horse has the kind of early speed to run up front, therefore I will again say I think his effort at Keeneland would be more the type of race he would run against solid derby contenders, but not necessarily that wide.

Now, what would have impressed you in an early prep race at Tampa against a weak field with the idea that you might want the horse to run in a big race in May? Just curious.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Now, what would have impressed you in an early prep race at Tampa against a weak field with the idea that you might want the horse to run in a big race in May? Just curious.

To be honest I don't really think that way, but I suppose a more authoritative victory against today's hopelessly overmatched and weak field would have been more meaningful. However, it's 2 1/2 months until the Derby, and surely one thing Pletcher seems to be learning is that blowout early wins by 3YOs don't necessarily aid their development. I guess with the few legitimate Derby contenders he has he will at least try to be patient.

If I actually cared about the Derby at this time, which I honestly don't, he would probably still be in the top ten or so likely contenders. But I certainly wouldn't move him up based on his performance today. Maybe it was just what he needed. Maybe it will set him up perfectly for the future. However, none of that elevates his specific performance today. It simply was nothing to get worked up about. If he wasn't on anybody's Top Ten Derby List, or trained by Todd Pletcher, he would have barely raised a whisper with today's effort.

Let me just go on record...

Any Given Saturday is teh suck.


That is all.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

If he wasn't on anybody's Top Ten Derby List, or trained by Todd Pletcher, he would have barely raised a whisper with today's effort.

This I can agree with. Especially this far out from the Derby. But I thought this was sort of the fun of it all... Watching the 3 yos change form and develop.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Pedestrian... And what would you have expected?

This is a Derby prep in Tampa... He ran the race up front, unlike his other races, and finished going away easily, as he has done before. So you wanted a track record?

Not a track record, but certainly more than the 88 beyer he's goning to get for that laughfest...

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Not a track record, but certainly more than the 88 beyer he's goning to get for that laughfest...

88 Beyer and he was never even shown the whip. Hand ridden... he was trotting at the end. Pretty much the kind of effort I would want for an early prep against a weak field.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by pgardn

88 Beyer and he was never even shown the whip. Hand ridden... he was trotting at the end. Pretty much the kind of effort I would want for an early prep against a weak field.

Trotting at the end?!! I was at the finish line, dude...He had all he could handle from a local yokel that's not even on the DT...If you need the chart, here:

http://www.drf.com/drfPDFChartRacesI...TAM0217100.pdf

I'm not sh1tin' on the horse, it's just that @ 1-5 and being ranked in the top 10 of derby contenders, he should have shown a hell of a lot more...if he has any heart that is...

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Trotting at the end?!! I was at the finish line, dude...He had all he could handle from a local yokel that's not even on the DT...If you need the chart, here:

http://www.drf.com/drfPDFChartRacesI...TAM0217100.pdf

I'm not sh1tin' on the horse, it's just that @ 1-5 and being ranked in the top 10 of derby contenders, he should have shown a hell of a lot more...if he has any heart that is...

YOu were there. So you had a better view. Watch the race replays, dude. You can view them more than once. The race was over way before the finish line... are you serious? Heart? WTF? You want him to set a track record in an early derby prep.in Tampa. These horses have enough trouble making it to the Derby and you want a blow out in an early prep race? I dont need a chart I watched the race, and I just watched it again. The race was over... Heart? How in God's name from that race can you state this horse has no heart?

[Gander]

File this under who cares, get the form out for tomorrow and give some opinions. Nobody cares about Any Given Saturday. It was a terrible movie to boot, Al Pacino's worst performance by far. Pgard, sometimes I think you just like to argue. Must be the physics teacher in you.

Originally Posted by Gander

File this under who cares, get the form out for tomorrow and give some opinions. Nobody cares about Any Given Saturday. It was a terrible movie to boot, Al Pacino's worst performance by far. Pgard, sometimes I think you just like to argue. Must be the physics teacher in you.

As I have state numerous times before I like to find out how people view races. So I challenge statements. Thats why I liked Oracles temper Tim. But I understand there is a line of civility.

Bottom line Tim is I dont think the race shows much of anything. It was a good workout at best.

BTW, I hardly ever argue with kids. They are too much fun to joke around with. But I love a good sports "discussion".

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by pgardn

YOu were there. So you had a better view. Watch the race replays, dude. You can view them more than once. The race was over way before the finish line... are you serious? Heart? WTF? You want him to set a track record in an early derby prep.in Tampa. These horses have enough trouble making it to the Derby and you want a blow out in an early prep race? I dont need a chart I watched the race, and I just watched it again. The race was over... Heart? How in God's name from that race can you state this horse has no heart?

He has no heart because he barely beat a pool of marginal NW1x'ers; most of which had no business in this race..That's why. If you want to see what a champion performs like, watch Bluegrass Cat in last year's SFD...

[ManilaRose]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

He has no heart because he barely beat a pool of marginal NW1x'ers; most of which had no business in this race..That's why. If you want to see what a champion performs like, watch Bluegrass Cat in last year's SFD...

First let me say I thought it was an ok performance. That being said the Derby's in May at Churchill, not February at Tampa. Second, to say he barely won this race is comical and deserves no more time spent on the comment than this. Lastly, I was unaware a horse's heart is measured by the margin of victory against inferior horses who at no point made the race interesting enough of a challenge for AGS to call on heart. Horses win with ability and heart. Some races you need one, some races you need both. Heart certainly wasn't necessary in this race.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I strongly disagree with the poster who thought AGS's KEE race 2nd time out was his best race. His stakes debut was a far better performance.

The last high profile 3yo prospect, to finish his 2yo season in the Kentucky Jockey Club and make his 3yo debut in the Sam Davis was The Cliff's Edge.

He was beaten as the 1/2 favorite in the betting. Two races later, he rallied to win the Blue Grass Stakes with a 111 Beyer, beating eventual Ky Derby 2nd and 4th place finishers Lion Heart and Limehouse. TCE ended up being the morning line favorite for the Derby. However, he was cold on the board, ran 5th, lost his shoes, and I think might have come out of the race with an injury.

I'm not discouraged with AGS's effort today, and still consider him a legit Derby horse. However, I'm also a tad happier I passed up making a future bet on him at the anemic 14/1 odds he closed at last week.