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  #1  
Old 02-13-2007, 01:30 PM
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Actually I didn't think he would try the lead, but the rail was the place to be Saturday. Bias, yes for sure. I consider his best ability to stalk, then pounce down the lane. Has a nice strong late kick, and the Big A has the longest streach, so they do have a way to compliment each other.
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  #2  
Old 02-13-2007, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterB
Actually I didn't think he would try the lead, but the rail was the place to be Saturday. Bias, yes for sure. I consider his best ability to stalk, then pounce down the lane. Has a nice strong late kick, and the Big A has the longest streach, so they do have a way to compliment each other.
AQU Inner stretch is of course considerably shorter than the 1,155' of the AQU Main, and the Gotham will be run on the Inner this year..

Rick Violette on ATRAB Monday (starts 30:00 into segment):
http://www.attheracesandbeyond.com/stream/21207a.mp3
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  #3  
Old 02-13-2007, 01:44 PM
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Giacomo's dosage fit, didn't it?
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  #4  
Old 02-13-2007, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slotdirt
Giacomo's dosage fit, didn't it?
No, Giacomo's didn't because he had a dosage index over 4.00, but isn't there a typical rule of thumb for derby contenders concerning the amount of dosage points in the classic category or middle category (if you use this angle?)

Here's an interesting site giving some common derby angles:

http://www.theyareatthepost.com/kent...cky-derby.html

Horses ranked within 10 pounds of the male topweight or who are a champion in another country and have a Dosage Index of 4.0 or less and a Center of Distribution of 1.25 or less are considered the dual qualifiers. These horses have statistically shown that they have a better chance at winning the Derby. Here are this year's dual qualifiers (so far):

Horse Trainer Dosage Jockey

Any Given Saturday Todd Pletcher 2.67 * Rafael Bejarano

Circular Quay Todd Pletcher 2.08 * Garrett Gomez

Great Hunter Doug O'Neill 3.00 * Corey Nakatani

King of the Roxy Todd Pletcher 3.00 * Edgar Prado

Liquidity Doug O'Neill 1.86 * Corey Nakatani

Nobiz Like Shobiz Barclay Tagg 1.44 * Cornelio Velasquez

Scat Daddy Todd Pletcher 2.47 * John Velazquez

Stormello Bill Currin 2.67 * Kent Desormeaux

Street Sense Carl Nafzger 2.14 * Calvin Borel
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  #5  
Old 02-13-2007, 02:26 PM
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Yeah, but a dual qualifier hasn't won in something like 10 years?
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  #6  
Old 02-13-2007, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slotdirt
Yeah, but a dual qualifier hasn't won in something like 10 years?
That's correct... it's just another angle to use, though. I definitely look at dosage points, but I think that the dosage index is becoming less important. I'm happy to see that my derby pick is a dual-qualifier. LOL
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  #7  
Old 02-13-2007, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slotdirt
Giacomo's dosage fit, didn't it?
Only 4 horses have ever won the Derby with a dosage of 4.00 or higher:

Strike the Gold '91
Real Quiet '98
Charismatic '99
Giacomo '05

Because of a reclassification of Strike the Gold's sire Alydar, his dosage would now not fit this profile. I believe his dosage is now considered to be in the 2.5 to 2.6 area. As someone stated above dosage is obviously becoming less prevalent considering that the horses that have bucked the trend have all been recent.
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  #8  
Old 02-13-2007, 04:21 PM
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I am trying to read as much and learn as much as I can but all these terms are a little confusign. Can any one please explain what they mean or do I have to read a book and which book is it.
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  #9  
Old 02-13-2007, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary Sue
I am trying to read as much and learn as much as I can but all these terms are a little confusign. Can any one please explain what they mean or do I have to read a book and which book is it.
This link explains some of the terms such as dosage and dual qualifiers. May help you pick out your Derby horse.

http://www.kentuckyderby.info/handic...tuckyderby.php
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  #10  
Old 02-13-2007, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary Sue
I am trying to read as much and learn as much as I can but all these terms are a little confusign. Can any one please explain what they mean or do I have to read a book and which book is it.
in the simplest terms dosage is a mathmetical representation of a horses pedigree...it takes into account the amont of speed vs. stamina and then boils it down to a number...the lower the number the longer (theoretically) the horse wants to go...

for more reading...
www.chef-de-race.com
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  #11  
Old 02-13-2007, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paisjpq
in the simplest terms dosage is a mathmetical representation of a horses pedigree...it takes into account the amont of speed vs. stamina and then boils it down to a number...the lower the number the longer (theoretically) the horse wants to go...

for more reading...
www.chef-de-race.com
Thank you I am going to read it. When you say a horse wants to 'go longer' does that have anything to do with when they have a bowel movement? I know it sounds silly but maybe that means something to experts. Thank you so much.
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  #12  
Old 02-13-2007, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail To Reason
Don't worry Mary I do not know what they mean either.

You're more likely to find a Derby winner in February on Seinfeld than from learning this witchcraft.

5 minutes to post is a pretty good time to make a selection.
Thank you. Everyone here seems so nice. I am sure I will learn a lot if I study and ask questions. Was Jerry Seinfeld a horse racing fan?
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  #13  
Old 02-14-2007, 08:12 AM
MLC MLC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManilaRose
Only 4 horses have ever won the Derby with a dosage of 4.00 or higher:

Strike the Gold '91
Real Quiet '98
Charismatic '99
Giacomo '05

Because of a reclassification of Strike the Gold's sire Alydar, his dosage would now not fit this profile. I believe his dosage is now considered to be in the 2.5 to 2.6 area. As someone stated above dosage is obviously becoming less prevalent considering that the horses that have bucked the trend have all been recent.
So if a dosage # is subject to change due to a reclassification, how accurate is it really?
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  #14  
Old 02-14-2007, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLC
So if a dosage # is subject to change due to a reclassification, how accurate is it really?
I would say probably not all that accurate in today's thoroughbred...

I look more at the dosage points than I do at the dosage index. I wish I could remember the amount of points they look for in the classic category, but I think they look for (at the very least) 18 total points with the majority of those points being in the center and to the left of the center. For example, here is Barbaro's dosage profile:

DP = 14-8-21-2-1 (46) DI = 2.41 CD = 0.70

His pedigree SCREAMED distance with having 21 points in the classic category. All of this is just another derby angle, but I've had some good luck by at least considering this and tossing the horses that I feel have no business trying to get a distance of ground. (Not always accurate, but a way of filtering contenders.)

Last edited by Cajungator26 : 02-14-2007 at 08:59 AM.
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  #15  
Old 02-14-2007, 08:45 AM
MLC MLC is offline
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I read the earlier post in this thread regarding this year's TC contenders. How did last years group measure up? I initially picked Lawyer Ron, but I seem to remember that his dosage # was on the high side.
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  #16  
Old 02-13-2007, 01:45 PM
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I think the DRF still lists the Inner Track stretch as being longer than the Main Track stretch. Seems like a mathematical impossibility but that's what it says!
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  #17  
Old 02-13-2007, 01:46 PM
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Nevermind, Giacomo had 16 total points. I think somer's angles say one must have 18.
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  #18  
Old 02-13-2007, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept
AQU Inner stretch is of course considerably shorter than the 1,155' of the AQU Main, and the Gotham will be run on the Inner this year..

Rick Violette on ATRAB Monday (starts 30:00 into segment):
http://www.attheracesandbeyond.com/stream/21207a.mp3
Steve, bar trivia:
The longest NYRA stretch?
The Aqueduct Inner. Look it up.
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  #19  
Old 02-13-2007, 01:48 PM
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Bias was there. Quality is there as well and agree he will be around 4/5 unless someone new pops up.
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