JAZIL....Most Overrated horse in the history of horse racing....

Gander · #1 02-08-2007, 10:42 AM

You could make the case for the 2005 Belmont being weak as a field, but I think Afleet Alex was clearly a great horse and very unlucky not to have been a Triple Crown winner, as he was 5 lengths the best in the KY Derby.

Jazil is a good horse who was in the right place at the right time. If you run the 2006 Belmont 5 times, there is a good chance you get 4-5 different winners.

If you run the 2005 Belmont Stakes 5 times, well I think its hard pressed to say that any of those would have been near Afleet Alex. He was a machine.

Sightseek · #2 02-08-2007, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

You could make the case for the 2005 Belmont being weak as a field, but I think Afleet Alex was clearly a great horse and very unlucky not to have been a Triple Crown winner, as he was 5 lengths the best in the KY Derby.

Jazil is a good horse who was in the right place at the right time. If you run the 2006 Belmont 5 times, there is a good chance you get 4-5 different winners.

If you run the 2005 Belmont Stakes 5 times, well I think its hard pressed to say that any of those would have been near Afleet Alex. He was a machine.

I don't agree with the second paragraph, but definitely agree with the latter. Afleet Alex looked flat to me coming down the stretch in the Derby so I don't really agree with him being 5 lengths better on that day, but any other day, yes.

slotdirt · #3 02-08-2007, 10:53 AM

That rail was as dead as dead could be that. Alex was obviously spent, lugged in to the worst part of the track, and spun his wheels. The most impressive horse in that race, IMO, was Closing Argument.

SniperSB23 · #4 02-08-2007, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

That rail was as dead as dead could be that. Alex was obviously spent, lugged in to the worst part of the track, and spun his wheels. The most impressive horse in that race, IMO, was Closing Argument.

I agree on that. An amazing race by him that day.

slotdirt · #5 02-08-2007, 11:00 AM

Caveat to my previous statement: Afleet Alex ran a damn good race in Derby 131 as well. He took all sorts of bumping in the first half mile or so, and still was there at the finish. Closing Argument and Afleet Alex basically had the same trip in that race.

Way off topic.

avance2000 · #6 02-08-2007, 11:15 AM

this is a great thread. i have never been a big fan of jazil, but when somebody comes on here that clearly does not understand the meaning of the word "overrated" i like the fact that a bunch of different people shout him down.
the most overrated horse ever? you have to be kidding me. he was not even the most overrated horse to win a TC race last year.....let alone ever. it was a foolish comment. thanks for setting him straight guys.

SniperSB23 · #7 02-08-2007, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

You could make the case for the 2005 Belmont being weak as a field, but I think Afleet Alex was clearly a great horse and very unlucky not to have been a Triple Crown winner, as he was 5 lengths the best in the KY Derby.

Jazil is a good horse who was in the right place at the right time. If you run the 2006 Belmont 5 times, there is a good chance you get 4-5 different winners.

If you run the 2005 Belmont Stakes 5 times, well I think its hard pressed to say that any of those would have been near Afleet Alex. He was a machine.

I disagree, I think they run it 5 times and Jazil runs right around the exact same time every race. He just runs the same speed all the time. I don't think that in 4 out of 5 races someone else from that field would run significantly better to beat him. At 12 furlongs he might even crack the top five horses in the country last year behind Invasor, Barbaro, Bernardini, and Premium Tap who all likely would have gone 12 no problem. None of the other horses in that Belmont field are even close to cracking the top ten. Unfortunately for Jazil there are no more 12 furlong races to run in so he'll be deemed a slow failure for not being able to win major stakes at 9 furlongs.

disappearingdan_akaplaya · #8 02-08-2007, 11:52 AM

wanna overrated horse? empire faker! luckily for him somehow pat day manages a 4 wide trip in a compact field and loses a ton of ground or else TMW rolls right by him that day. saarland being 5-1 in the derby was an absolute joke as well

Mac88 · #9 02-08-2007, 11:54 AM

Agreed. Was at Spa for that years Jim Dandy. Lucky enough to get box seat. Not taking anything away from Strong Hope but he had length of stretch to run SH down and EM could not. Hung again. That of course was last we saw of him. Horse had talent but not to level of aura surrounding him

Buffymommy · #10 02-08-2007, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disappearingdan_akaplaya

wanna overrated horse? empire faker! luckily for him somehow pat day manages a 4 wide trip in a compact field and loses a ton of ground or else TMW rolls right by him that day. saarland being 5-1 in the derby was an absolute joke as well

You wanna argue about Empire Maker again? You are soooooo silly.

disappearingdan_akaplaya · #11 02-08-2007, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffymommy

You wanna argue about Empire Maker again? You are soooooo silly.

he was overrated, he got beat by man among men lololololol...............nuff said. if atswhatimtalkinbout doesnt get a absolute butcher job of a ride by flores he clearly gets second in that years derby as opposed to only gettin beat a head by the faker, he may have won it all

LARHAGE · #12 02-08-2007, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disappearingdan_akaplaya

he was overrated, he got beat by man among men lololololol...............nuff said. if atswhatimtalkinbout doesnt get a absolute butcher job of a ride by flores he clearly gets second in that years derby as opposed to only gettin beat a head by the faker, he may have won it all

HA HA HA! Atswhat is the over-rated one, it's funny you call a 3 time Gr.1 winner overrated, and that plodding piece of crap wasn't!!!!!!

Buffymommy · #13 02-08-2007, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

HA HA HA! Atswhat is the over-rated one, it's funny you call a 3 time Gr.1 winner overrated, and that plodding piece of crap wasn't!!!!!!

EXACTLY!!!!

disappearingdan_akaplaya · #14 02-08-2007, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

HA HA HA! Atswhat is the over-rated one, it's funny you call a 3 time Gr.1 winner overrated, and that plodding piece of crap wasn't!!!!!!

lol what buffy you couldnt come up with that all on your own? anyways nobody ever said ats was going to win the TC. nobody said ats was the greatest thing since sliced bread like empire faker was made out to be. EM only finished a head infront of him in the derby after that brutal trip he recieved so i guess em is a piece of crap as well to you lar. RIP ATS! since man among men beat empire faker, i guess id have to put my money on zippy chippy against him if they hada match race

Buffymommy · #15 02-08-2007, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disappearingdan_akaplaya

lol what buffy you couldnt come up with that all on your own? anyways nobody ever said ats was going to win the TC. nobody said ats was the greatest thing since sliced bread like empire faker was made out to be. EM only finished a head infront of him in the derby after that brutal trip he recieved so i guess em is a piece of crap as well to you lar. RIP ATS! since man among men beat empire faker, i guess id have to put my money on zippy chippy against him if they hada match race

Whatever dude! Just saying if you had seen his FL Derby win in person, you wouldn't be bashing the horse.

And uh..... Didn't EM run in the derby with a sore foot? AND HE STILL BEAT THAT PIECE OF CRAP ATSWHAT.... now that is what I am talking about...

LARHAGE · #16 02-08-2007, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disappearingdan_akaplaya

lol what buffy you couldnt come up with that all on your own? anyways nobody ever said ats was going to win the TC. nobody said ats was the greatest thing since sliced bread like empire faker was made out to be. EM only finished a head infront of him in the derby after that brutal trip he recieved so i guess em is a piece of crap as well to you lar. RIP ATS! since man among men beat empire faker, i guess id have to put my money on zippy chippy against him if they hada match race

You could also say Empire Maker beat AtswhatI'mploddingbout with a bad foot and a wide trip, which he did. The fact he got beat by Man Among Men in his 3rd start, as a green baby, looking at the grandstands is irrelevant, Man Among Men was a nice horse, and Ats surely never beat much better than him, anyway after that Sham Stakes they put the blinkers on Empire Maker and the result was his Florida Derby, Ats could NEVER run a race like that, he was a plodding, suck up piece of crap, the proverbial woulda, shoulda, coulda. Ats also finished 4th in the Derby, the distance challenged Peace Rules, who was also ten times the horse that Ats rat was, also beat him despite battling for a mile and a quarter. Empire Maker was a Classic winner, won 3 Grade 1's, was never off the board and he's a faker. What the hell did Atswhat EVER accomplish? Ten Most Wanted could have gone around the track again and he was NEVER getting by Empire Maker, watch the replay, he could only get as close as his neck and Empire Maker pulled away again when he saw him. I just don't get how you can diss a horse like Empire Maker with what he accomplished and call him a fake, while turning around and praising a hanging rat like AtswhatI'mtalkingabout!!!! Their not even in the same league in accomplishments or talent!

JJP · #17 02-08-2007, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disappearingdan_akaplaya

wanna overrated horse? empire faker! luckily for him somehow pat day manages a 4 wide trip in a compact field and loses a ton of ground or else TMW rolls right by him that day. saarland being 5-1 in the derby was an absolute joke as well

Good call. Saarland had to be one of the most overrated. Dollar Bill also. Somebody earlier mentioned Jazil reminded them of Strike the Gold. StG didn't need 12 furlongs to find a field he could beat. Nowadays the quality in the Belmont fields pales in comparison to the Derby. And it should; 12 furlings is an irrelevant distance for dirt racing.

Cajungator26 · #18 02-08-2007, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJP

And it should; 12 furlings is an irrelevant distance for dirt racing.

And that's a shame IMO. I have huge respect for the kinds of horses that are bred to go long... I'm sick of seeing the sprinter types all over the place. If we want our sport to be devoted to sprinting, perhaps we should start betting quarter horses.

#19 02-08-2007, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJP

Good call. Saarland had to be one of the most overrated. Dollar Bill also. Somebody earlier mentioned Jazil reminded them of Strike the Gold. StG didn't need 12 furlongs to find a field he could beat. Nowadays the quality in the Belmont fields pales in comparison to the Derby. And it should; 12 furlings is an irrelevant distance for dirt racing.

I was the person who mentioned Strike the Gold. I agree with you. STG could win in under 12 furlongs!

Gander · #20 02-08-2007, 01:45 PM

In Eclipse balloting, the Belmont winner Jazil was not even rated in the top three.

Rightfully so!

I wouldnt give much credit to Take the Bluff's victory. He sat a perfect trip behind a horse who should never be on the lead to begin with- Executive Choice. And he was all out to hold off the mighty Thundering Success, in a
3 horse field.

And I dont consider Bob & John any better a horse then Scrappy T and a few others who ran behind Afleet Alex in the 05 Belmont.