NCLB-Education

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Bababooyee

Once again, you are confusing rights with privileges.

I believe most states guarantee free public education. If it's guaranteed, how does that make it a "privilege?" Yes, I know kids can be expelled, but I believe they must then go to another school, yes?

If anything, you could argue it's not a right; it's a requirement, as I believe kids are required by law to attend school of some sort from age 5 until 16.

I'm starting to think your definition of "rights" is whatever you want to believe "rights" are. if free education is guaranteed by law, how is that a "privilege?"

The scary part about this to me is that our democratic system needs to have a significant number of educated people in order to function. The gap grows, the democracy becomes more unstable. I really dont like that trend.

So we need to do our best to help educate every child in the US. It is in our national interest. It should make everyone in this country uneasy if the % of uneducated adults continues to grow.

[Downthestretch55]

Further reading. Don't bother if you're "reading challenged" as it's a bit long.
http://www.alternet.org/story/47674/

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Bababooyee

OK, after fully recovering from the near blackout...

Yes, some states (if not all? ) do provide for free public education (see, Im fair and willing to look stuff up).

GR, since I am short on time (and I can connect the dots if needed...but you seem smart enough), simply use a similar thought to your rationale wrt your defense of the "equality" of progressive taxation (equality...progressive - talk about oxymoron! ) and apply it to the situation here.

First of all, what's with the "my dear" in your earlier response to me? What are you, my 85-year-old grandfather? What next, you give me a quarter for candy and then put your thumb between your fingers and tell me you've stolen my nose? Geez louise.

B, we will have to agree to disagree on how we see the taxation thing, because, as I've said, people are all taxed equally; it's the money that is taxed differently. My pathetic below 40K income is taxed at exactly the same rate as Gates' first less-than-40K income. What is taxed more is the amount he makes above that. And if I made more, that amount of money would be taxed accordingly.

So what are you saying, Bababooyee? You don't think Americans should provide public education for our young people? What's your obsession with determining whether it's a right or a privilege? What does that have to do with school performance? You think it's unfair for poor kids to get an education? Is that what you're saying?

[GenuineRisk]

Editorial on rights from the Fort Wayne... Telegraph? Gazette? Journal? Mostly on second-hand smoke and laws, but some more general thoughts as well:

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/journal...l/16566691.htm

Doesn't have anything to do with NCLB, however.

[GenuineRisk]

And the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights, from 1948.

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Bababooyee

I made it about half-way through that douchebaggery...what an idiot (or bunch of idiots).

BUT to be fair, I haven't been as discerning as I should be in defining "rights". My fault for lack of clarity...and the mess it has caused! Maybe we can narrow this all down for time's sake.

I actually didn't have much of an opinion about the editorial. What got you so steaming mad about it?

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Bababooyee

I made it about half-way through that douchebaggery...what an idiot (or bunch of idiots).

BUT to be fair, I haven't been as discerning as I should be in defining "rights". My fault for lack of clarity...and the mess it has caused! Maybe we can narrow this all down for time's sake.

Surely a new SAT word has been born.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Surely a new SAT word has been born.

Not just a new SAT word....clearly in violation of the "code of conduct".
Mods???

[SentToStud]

To whoever wrote this (before deleting?!?) or believes it:

"As a renter, I pay no property (read, school) taxes, and frankly, I should. I benefit from an educated populace, too...."



Huh?

Sorry, just because you pay no property tax doesn't mean your own tax dollars do not go toward education. Hardly. In every state I've lived in, state funding EXCEEDS local funding of public schools.

To further inform you, state school funding is provided through legislative act. I assure you that each of those laws includes language that "GUARANTEES each child an educational opportunity..."

To me, that language confers a right, not a privilege.

The purpose of state funding (which you pay for) is, in part, to "equalize" educational opportunies for students regardless of the local property tax revenues generated for each individual district.

Local property taxes do not fully fund public schools. Not even close.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Bababooyee

I think it was supposed to be funny...I was woozy from shoveling snow for over an hour and had low blood sugar. Looks conry now, but cest la vie. Either way, lighten up.

Sorry, I don't get Old Man humor so well yet. Consider me lightened. And what does "conry" mean? I'm not familiar with the term. Old people word?

Like I said, I am accepting that for the purpose of this argument, and like I said, use a similar rationale and you can defend disparity in school quality based on disparity in property taxes paid. Like I said, I think you can connect the dots from here.

I have no idea what you are saying here. I was saying that to put blame for failing schools entirely on parents, without taking into account the inherent inequality in funding when school funding is based on property taxes, is not accurate. As a renter, I pay no property (read, school) taxes, and frankly, I should. I benefit from an educated populace, too.

Depends.

On what? That's no answer.

It is not an obsession. There is an important distinction (legally and philosophically) between the two. The fact that you want them to be the same (even really, really bad) doesn't make it so. And that you seem unwilling to explore the differences and remain in the dark is your problem, not mine.

Feel better now?

No, because you didn't answer the question. But seeing as how I still don't know if you answered my question from months ago about Israel and the religious right, I guess I should expect this?

Bababooyee, the only thing that will keep society continuing to progress is people being willing to say that something, even if not enshrined yet in the Constitution, is a right. And if that something is morally correct, chances are, it will become one. I think people do have a right to an education, just as anti-slavery advocates once thought people had a right to be free. And suffragists once thought women had a right to a vote. Those didn't start as rights, but they became them. If we all shrugged, and said "Well, it's not in the Constitution as it stands now" and no one was willing to say, "But it should be" then I'd not be voting and Condi Rice, who many of you conservatives are touting on another board as Presidential caliber, would be calling Bush "Massah" instead of his wife calling her "Dr. Rice."

And sometimes we screw up (see Amendments 18 and 21 of the Constitution) but we must always be willing to work for it.

Education isn't a cure-all for society's ills, but it helps to level the playing field a bit. I'm all for it.

(If you did get around to the Israel thing, let me know and my apologies for missing that the thread had been updated)

[GenuineRisk]

And mondo apologies for being a complete moron at trying to put my responses in between quotes. I wish they'd taught me how to do that during my free education years...

[Downthestretch55]

Well, well. well.
Good to see where this topic went.
Now, did I mention that I saw Elvis walking his pet groundhog while staring in amazement at the UFO that landed outside the subway station? Two of the three "aliens" were union members, one had tenure, and the other one had parents that didn't care about education at all, whether it was a right or a not, as long as they could ride their spaceship without helmets, and of course, dine in a restaurant where they could pass on their second hand smoke.
I heard that Elvis and the groundhog scored about the same on their standardized tests, so it looks like NCLB is safe.