Can you really make money in this game ?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I think you can come out ahead. You have to beat the take-out rate (~20%), and be 'better' than about 60% the handicappers out there.

Playing several tracks and betting every race at those tracks is tough. Being selective is important. Make your plays when you feel confident.

Also, don't drink. Consistently beating 60% of the handicappers sounds like a minor challenge, but many of those people are showing up at the track/OTB early in the afternoon, and they start drinking early. This is a near daily event for many of these people, and they generally are addicted to gambling and playing impaired. They are not playing with 'smart' money.

Of course, it is tough to be selective if you only go out to play the horses occasionally. I'm at the track 5-6 days a week, and I play maybe 4-8 races a week - usually at a track I'm familiar with the jockeys, trainers, and track biases.

I work at a track though, so all the races sort of blend together and being selective is fairly easy in that scenario.

I have to take exception to this.

The majority of the money in the pools at racetracks is bet by educated players, most of whom are not even at a racetrack, and almost none of these players are drinking.

That's all for now.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I have to take exception to this.

The majority of the money in the pools at racetracks is bet by educated players, most of whom are not even at a racetrack, and almost none of these players are drinking.

That's all for now.

...and your evidence for that would be????

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

...and your evidence for that would be????

Considering the charges in your initial post I would say you are probably the one who should be asked for " evidence ".

I have played seriously for a long time and I'm fairly well acquainted with many other serious players. None of them drink while playing.

Well I've worked at a number of tracks over the past 10 years, and was a horseplayer long before that. I've worked at tracks and OTB's in Virginia, Illinois, Minnesota, West Virginia, Idaho, California and Texas.

The common theme all these tracks and OTB's have are people showing up before noon, starting to drink, and drinking most of the day. They also play darn near every race.

The larger, 'professional' type players do not bet every pool, every race, every track so their money is not everywhere. The sober, astute, and restrained horseplayer is a rarity. You are lucky to know even a few of them.

On the other hand, you can find the drunken addicted gambler at nearly every track and OTB in good sized numbers.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Well I've worked at a number of tracks over the past 10 years, and was a horseplayer long before that. I've worked at tracks and OTB's in Virginia, Illinois, Minnesota, West Virginia, Idaho, California and Texas.

The common theme all these tracks and OTB's have are people showing up before noon, starting to drink, and drinking most of the day. They also play darn near every race.

The larger, 'professional' type players do not bet every pool, every race, every track so their money is not everywhere. The sober, astute, and restrained horseplayer is a rarity. You are lucky to know even a few of them.

On the other hand, you can find the drunken addicted gambler at nearly every track and OTB in good sized numbers.

G-Hog,

While I agree that the typical otb bunch is a fairly sodden crew, I don't believe they account for very much of the handle on an overall basis. I also believe there is only fairly modest large, "educated" wagering done on-track. When I look at a weekday card at Gulf, Aqueduct, etc,... and see there are 3000 people on track accounting for $2 million in handle, I assume there are probably 200-300 people wagering over $200/race and probably 10 times that many wagering less than $10 per race on the on-track races.

Personally, I believe the biggest wagerers are the internet players as well as some Vegas-based handicappers. Just my opinion.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Thank you.....I really am an idiot!

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Dude, I'm far from a troll. I merely stated my opinion and tried to have a civil discussion.

Try to be just a little less judgemental, Jesus.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Dude, I'm far from a troll. I merely stated my opinion and tried to have a civil discussion.

Try to be just a little less judgemental, Jesus.

I would say it is your posts in this thread that are pretty judgemental.

You just started posting here. Look around, it's a pretty good place, and there are a lot of posters here who are very knowledgable about racing. I'm sure a number of them will have some things to say about your allegations by morning.

Many of them, in fact, aren't as out of it as I am.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I would say it is your posts in this thread that are pretty judgemental.

You just started posting here. Look around, it's a pretty good place, and there are a lot of posters here who are very knowledgable about racing. I'm sure a number of them will have some things to say about your allegations by morning.

Many of them, in fact, aren't as out of it as I am.

Well, then I pre-empatively apologize for my blanket statement on the intoxication level and addicted nature of many horseplayers that I have encountered.

Maybe they are more successful horseplayers than I imagine, but personally if I have two beers my handicapping is crap.

There are a lot of undisciplined players out there would be a more accurate, less inflammatory point. A disciplined player can gain an advantage.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

There are a lot of undisciplined players out there would be a more accurate, less inflammatory point. A disciplined player can gain an advantage.

There certainly are....but unfortunately not enough of them are contributing enough handle to make the game significantly easier. I wish they were.

[Holland Hacker]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Well, then I pre-empatively apologize for my blanket statement on the intoxication level and addicted nature of many horseplayers that I have encountered.

Maybe they are more successful horseplayers than I imagine, but personally if I have two beers my handicapping is crap.

There are a lot of undisciplined players out there would be a more accurate, less inflammatory point. A disciplined player can gain an advantage.

I accept your apology. I have been playing the races for a long time (> 25 years which is more than 1/2 of my life). I will have a beer or two on occassion when I'm at the track but I prefer not to Imbibe as it will only cloud my judgement, which isn't all that good to begin with.

I agree with BTW, in that most of the money in the pools is not "under the influence." While I agree that there is some money wagered by intoxicated people I think it is far from the majority of the money in the pools. It is rare for me to see "drunks" staggering around placing wagers. Two exceptions I can think of are the Derby and the Preakness, where there is more of a "Spring Break" atmoshpere but even that is limited mostly to the infields.

To respond to the original post about whether or not you can actauly make money in this "game." I think if you are very patient and pick your spots you can. I have not been able to find the self discipline to only play a few races when I go to the track. I will limit my wagers to less than $10 when I don't have a strong feeling, but even that eats into the profitable plays when I am correct. I view it more as a form of entertainment and a viceand if at the end of the day or year I'm ahead better yet!

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Dude, I'm far from a troll. I merely stated my opinion and tried to have a civil discussion.

Try to be just a little less judgemental, Jesus.

Cut me some slack...i'm drunk and betting Australian racing.

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Cut me some slack...i'm drunk and betting Australian racing.

Well good luck with that endeavor.

I prefer turf racing and rely on breeding quite a bit, so as a North American handicapper I'm nothing but confused trying to play Australia (although I do look for Sinspiel's and Spining World's and may play those horses. Danehill is about the only sire I see regularly that I recognize as a sire I like).

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Well good luck with that endeavor.

I prefer turf racing and rely on breeding quite a bit, so as a North American handicapper I'm nothing but confused trying to play Australia (although I do look for Sinspiel's and Spining World's and may play those horses. Danehill is about the only sire I see regularly that I recognize as a sire I like).

Well I had some good racing luck tonight. Had a 29-1 shot win and hit the exacta for $4. Paid over 400. You can get some crazy prices on good horses down under. I guess it's because the bettors, for the most part, are descendants of pirates and hookers.

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I have to take exception to this.

The majority of the money in the pools at racetracks is bet by educated players, most of whom are not even at a racetrack, and almost none of these players are drinking.

That's all for now.

Agree 100%.

The "addicted" gamblers playing "impaired" as Groundhog stated, do not make a dent in the pool.