kip devile 9/2 vs. showing up 6/1

Originally Posted by Exceller

I don't think his race was terrible, but a big grade 1 and the classic distance might be a little over his head.

He only ever carried that speed two turns one time and that really was a fluke. He shipped to Philly Park on a day when the track was scraped to the bone, fast and speed favoring and he got real loose agaisnt some horses who werent very good. That was the Penn derby. Hes a very fast horse but two turns against top company is not his game. The race came up weak and he had been training good so he took a shot. The way Gander talks you would think he was 3-5 and breaking from the rail rather than a horse with a so so shot who drew the 10 hole in a two turn race.
The only way to get lucky and steal a race you aren't maybe the best in, is to take a shot. Kinda Like MOquette did with Seek Gold, or D wayne did one year in the Belmont with Commendable. Some guys only run their horses is soft spots to pad their % and never take a crack. They hurt their owners by doing this, picking out only soft spots and never giving the owners a chance to cash out and get lucky. Real good trainers do not pick out exclusively soft spots so they can get a win and pad the % totals.

[Exceller]

Originally Posted by oracle80

He only ever carried that speed two turns one time and that really was a fluke. He shipped to Philly Park on a day when the track was scraped to the bone, fast and speed favoring and he got real loose agaisnt some horses who werent very good. That was the Penn derby. Hes a very fast horse but two turns against top company is not his game. The race came up weak and he had been training good so he took a shot. The way Gander talks you would think he was 3-5 and breaking from the rail rather than a horse with a so so shot who drew the 10 hole in a two turn race.
The only way to get lucky and steal a race you aren't maybe the best in, is to take a shot. Kinda Like MOquette did with Seek Gold, or D wayne did one year in the Belmont with Commendable. Some guys only run their horses is soft spots to pad their % and never take a crack. They hurt their owners by doing this, picking out only soft spots and never giving the owners a chance to cash out and get lucky. Real good trainers do not pick out exclusively soft spots so they can get a win and pad the % totals.

I dont know about Dutrow. Always thought he gets to play by different rules in NY then the does anywhere else. KY is not NY.

Originally Posted by Exceller

I dont know about Dutrow. Always thought he gets to play by different rules in NY then the does anywhere else. KY is not NY.

really? Then why is he winning at such a high clip in KY now with his stable there? And he ships to win stakes all over the place, even won the Wueens Plate last year. Thats what most guys say about Rick when he beats them, which he will do quite often.

[Exceller]

Originally Posted by oracle80

really? Then why is he winning at such a high clip in KY now with his stable there? And he ships to win stakes all over the place, even won the Wueens Plate last year. Thats what most guys say about Rick when he beats them, which he will do quite often.

I guess I can have an opinion. Last I checked he has been caught before. Once you get caught you have to live with it. I just don't trust NY racing in general.

[Crown@club]

Originally Posted by Exceller

I guess I can have an opinion. Last I checked he has been caught before. Once you get caught you have to live with it. I just don't trust NY racing in general.

.....and it filters to this board.

It was an over-medication of a legal drug administered more than 7 days in advance, that traced amounts stayed in the system on racing day.

Love this Mentality that people have everywhere. 'Oh my God, that trainer got suspended for illegal drugs. He's a juicer! He's a juicer!'

Originally Posted by Exceller

I guess I can have an opinion. Last I checked he has been caught before. Once you get caught you have to live with it. I just don't trust NY racing in general.

Caught? Hey buddy boy MR West Point Cheerleader. I guess that Violette is A CHEATER WHO HAS BEEN CAUGHT AND JUST HAS TO LIVE WITH IT AS WELL HUH? he did 10 days last year for an overage, just about the same overage and category as Rick's. LOL!! What now mouth? Does your reputable stable employ cheaters?
Answer is no they don't. Both Violtette's and Dutrow had overages of permissibel medications. Thats not cheating or doping. Cause if it is then I don't know how you can do business with people who do business with cheaters. Its nonsense to call Violette or Dutrwo cheaters. If you do that you can add Asmussen, Zito, Mott, etc to the list. They all did supsensions for overages of legal drugs.
You really ought to study up if you wanna hold your own in a debate about racing matters with me for longer than 10 seconds.

[Exceller]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Caught? Hey buddy boy MR West Point Cheerleader. I guess that Violette is A CHEATER WHO HAS BEEN CAUGHT AND JUST HAS TO LIVE WITH IT AS WELL HUH? he did 10 days last year for an overage, just about the same overage and category as Rick's. LOL!! What now mouth? Does your reputable stable employ cheaters?
Answer is no they don't. Both Violtette's and Dutrow had overages of permissibel medications. Thats not cheating or doping. Cause if it is then I don't know how you can do business with people who do business with cheaters. Its nonsense to call Violette or Dutrwo cheaters. If you do that you can add Asmussen, Zito, Mott, etc to the list. They all did supsensions for overages of legal drugs.
You really ought to study up if you wanna hold your own in a debate about racing matters with me for longer than 10 seconds.

That would be West Point Owner to you. You are the Dutrow cheerleader last I checked. Too bad you root for horses you don't own. Must be exciting when the give out the checks and you get nothing. LOL.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by oracle80

really? Then why is he winning at such a high clip in KY now with his stable there? And he ships to win stakes all over the place, even won the Wueens Plate last year. Thats what most guys say about Rick when he beats them, which he will do quite often.

Frankel trained Wild Desert when he won the Queen's Plate ( over probably the worst field in history in that race ).

[Exceller]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Frankel trained Wild Desert when he won the Queen's Plate ( over probably the worst field in history in that race ).

Oracle was wrong about something. No way.

[Gander]

"I guess I can have an opinion. Last I checked he has been caught before. Once you get caught you have to live with it. I just don't trust NY racing in general."


Why is this such a popular opinion among horse racing fans? To be honest I am not in the game nor will I ever be, just a gambler and a fan. NY easily has the best racing consistently throughout the year. I find racing at Churchill horribly boring outside Derby & Oaks week, racing in California except for Santa Anita an utter mess, and use to like Gulfstream but that has gone down the tubes except for a few big Saturdays early in the meet.

People cheat everywhere. Its not exclusive to NY. Look at all the stuff thats gone down in Southern Cal over the past couple years.

[Exceller]

Originally Posted by Gander

"I guess I can have an opinion. Last I checked he has been caught before. Once you get caught you have to live with it. I just don't trust NY racing in general."


Why is this such a popular opinion among horse racing fans? To be honest I am not in the game nor will I ever be, just a gambler and a fan. NY easily has the best racing consistently throughout the year. I find racing at Churchill horribly boring outside Derby & Oaks week, racing in California except for Santa Anita an utter mess, and use to like Gulfstream but that has gone down the tubes except for a few big Saturdays early in the meet.

People cheat everywhere. Its not exclusive to NY. Look at all the stuff thats gone down in Southern Cal over the past couple years.

I agree the cheating goes on everywhere. But the NY scandals are a tough pill to swallow. The jockey weights scandal really annoyed me. This type of stuff is rampant in NY and they catch someone once in a while to make it look like they are doing something. Fact is the betting pools are the largest in NY so that is where the most corruption exists. In NY you can hide money really easily in those pools.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Frankel trained Wild Desert when he won the Queen's Plate ( over probably the worst field in history in that race ).

I know he was the trainer of record but Frankel admitted that he had never seen the horse and that Rudy did all the work.

[Exceller]

Originally Posted by oracle80

I know he was the trainer of record but Frankel admitted that he had never seen the horse and that Rudy did all the work.

Have you ever admitted you were wrong in your life?

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Exceller

Have you ever admitted you were wrong in your life?

He has, actually.

[Gander]

I dont know what difference the odds make in dismissing an out of the money performance in a race where Dutrow was talking the horse up like he couldnt lose. "If my horse runs his race he will be very tough to beat" is what he said before the race. I thought he made a pretty easy lead for a horse of his ability and expected a better finish out of him thats all.

Not faulting Dutrow at all for trying this grade 1, I didnt think it came up all that particularly tough either. To be honest, I thought it was a real good chance for him to win a grade 1.

[blackthroatedwind]

Dutrow has a poor opinion about his horses based on the comments he makes publically. Earlier this year he declared that New York Hero was going to win the Met Mile ( he was virtually eased ). Before Wild Desert made this year's debut, a losing one in a minor stake, he intimated he was as good a horse as he has ever trained. There is no better example of why one should ignore trainer's comments than the irrelevent verbiage coming out of his mouth.