Turfway

[The Bid]

Jim, the article you linked is what TURFWAY says. What would you expect them to say, we paid millions for an inferior surface and now have egg on our faces?

Cannon, they have ran in much worse weather. You know being a KY guy that night racing is brutal up there. They wont get an inch of snow, and its not the cold thats having them cancel. 30 degrees is the forecast, how many times have you saddled one when its under 30 during the day?

Notice in that article Ellison isnt saying anything about how sound its keeping the horses. Because its not

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Jim, the article you linked is what TURFWAY says. What would you expect them to say, we paid millions for an inferior surface and now have egg on our faces?

Cannon, they have ran in much worse weather. You know being a KY guy that night racing is brutal up there. They wont get an inch of snow, and its not the cold thats having them cancel. 30 degrees is the forecast, how many times have you saddled one when its under 30 during the day?

Wind gusts up to 45 mph possible. They are making the right move by calling it off early, keeps horses from shipping in needlessly.

As usual in most situations the issue is not black and white.
Economically Turfway needs to not run when the weather is so bad. They dug themselves in a big hole financially with the horsemen the 1st year of Poly because they only missed one day instead of the usual 10-12. Because they paid out so much more purse money than was budgeted because they forgot that they would have a whole lot more racing days because they would not cancel as much they are in the red in the purse account. Which is the reason the purses still suck so bad despite the handle being up for the last 4 meets. I have made repeated requests to the HBPA that we should cut out dates in January and Febuary to get the purse account back where it should be and simply because the quality of racing day to day in the winter is so poor that there is less demand for our product. Just yesterday I got an email from the HBPA that was talking about this same idea , though it is a little too late now for this year.
I have said many times that I do not have a problem with the surface at Turfway especially compared to the old one. I have had no problems physically with any of my horses that are training there and they are far from the creme of the crop.

[The Bid]

Cannon, you are way too intelligent to be training racehorses. You could be making a lot of money in an office somewhere


Lets wait and see what the wind gets up to tomorrow, then we can revisit the decision to cancel racing through the weekend


How about Oaklawn cancel, they are probably sick. Trained today, track is fine, and they canelled through the weekend, brutal.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Cannon, you are way too intelligent to be training racehorses. You could be making a lot of money in an office somewhere

Just the fact that I subject myself to the torture that is training horses shows that my intellegence levels may be a mirage.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Bid

How about Oaklawn cancel, they are probably sick. Trained today, track is fine, and they canelled through the weekend, brutal.

I remember a few years ago when Tampa postponed one of its bigger turf stakes for fillies from Sat to Tuesday based on a weather report of serious rain. Never rained a drop but they wound up smelling like a rose because they rescheduled it for a Tuesday and they were able to play up the fact that all the top jocks came to ride the stake on the Dark day, got on all the local newspapers and tv

[The Bid]

Did you notice the kickback tonight Cannon?

I saw multiple horses pull themselves out of spots due to the kickback. Seasoned horses, not first timers who have never eaten any dirt, horses that normally sit that trip. This is the first time in a while Ive really noticed heavy kickback.

Jim, the dirt track they had was the worst dirt track in the world , how could anything be worse?

For the record 3 were vanned off tonight

Grand Sand
Eddie Kennely piece
One in the fourth.......... Probably because they were too cold

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Did you notice the kickback tonight Cannon?

I saw multiple horses pull themselves out of spots due to the kickback. Seasoned horses, not first timers who have never eaten any dirt, horses that normally sit that trip. This is the first time in a while Ive really noticed heavy kickback.

Jim, the dirt track they had was the worst dirt track in the world probably, how could it be any worse?

For the record 3 were vanned off tonight

Watch the kick back on a sloppy track.

There is no worse place in the world for kickback than the Meadowlands. Horses get more eye injuries there than anywhere, not to mention what happens to the jocks.

Listen, Polytrack is not perfect and its designers may have sold it a bit strong but as we have said many times it is better than the alternative at Turfway. As far as in California, though I dont race there much the horseman were begging for a change which says something about what is going on there. Arlington simply had to do something or get buried if they had another bad run again this year.
It like I said in my rant about the Breeders Cup, I just am tired of fighting for things that I can not change. I will simply adjust my way of doing things and move on.

[The Bid]

The kickback tonight was brutal. Watch the Broganville race on race replays, the horse was hit in the head with a piece of frozen poly that was bigger than a meteor. The track was frozen and balling up this morning during training, and tonight it was worse.

I dont like poly Cannon, I like a good dirt surface. There was a rush to install this **** as soon as Keeneland started making money on it.

As a trainer would you rather have a good conventional dirt surface like the Oklahoma track, or Poly

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I remember a few years ago when Tampa postponed one of its bigger turf stakes for fillies from Sat to Tuesday based on a weather report of serious rain. Never rained a drop but they wound up smelling like a rose because they rescheduled it for a Tuesday and they were able to play up the fact that all the top jocks came to ride the stake on the Dark day, got on all the local newspapers and tv

Yeah and us 9-5 locals were hot about that becuase we missed seeing a nice race.

We have always bitched that their best cards top to bottom are on Tuesday, good business decision for them, but the fans that can only be on track Sat-Sun lose out....again.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Wind gusts up to 45 mph possible. They are making the right move by calling it off early, keeps horses from shipping in needlessly.

As usual in most situations the issue is not black and white.

I have said many times that I do not have a problem with the surface at Turfway especially compared to the old one. I have had no problems physically with any of my horses that are training there and they are far from the creme of the crop.

Sensible thoughts, and I assume that you are not speaking for Turfway Park.

Other quotes I found in an article in the Miami Herald;

"It's easy to criticize, but it's difficult to come up with the facts," said trainer Bernie Flint, who had one horse from his barn euthanized recently at Turfway.

"It's faster. It feels like it's harder on some days. But it's not hurting horses," said trainer James Jackson.

John Veitch, former horse trainer and now chief state steward for the Kentucky racing authority, remarked similarly, saying that at Turfway, "in comparison to 2005 (pre-Polytrack), this is really an improvement. It's safer and we're racing under trying (weather) conditions here."